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Attached link seems to be saying "eating meat does not cause cancer if you also eat a lot of vegetables which mitigate against it, unless you consume grains which is the real bugbear"

Anybody on the forum have anything to say about this, which is troubling me.

http://www.thepaleomom.com/2015/08/the- ... ancer.html
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Farhad
OMS Jul 2014, dx '97-'98, 1st symptoms '91
London, UK
Incidentally, I should've put in my post – I am not thinking of varying from the wonderful OMS, which has saved me from a walking stick possibly wheelchair – I'm just trying to assist a friend who doubts its wisdom, and wants to continue scoffing meat like he's a complete carnivore, and feed it to his kids as well. He knows what I'm doing with OMS, he is an argumentative sort of chap, and he is the one who sent the link.
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Farhad
OMS Jul 2014, dx '97-'98, 1st symptoms '91
London, UK
If people want to continue eating meat they will find anything to support it.
Asthma and Eczma how many parents do you know would even try to take diary out of their childs diet, people just do not want to hear it, so don't lose sweat.
Reminds me of the Butter is good For You that hit the New York Times, so many people raved because it let them carry on consuming what they wanted.
The bad can be made to look good when compared to the very bad. Butter compared to trans fats.. neither is good both are still bad.
Eating meat is a personal choice and I think within 20 years we will see the same about meat as today we see about smoking...it will be commonly known it is corrosive to the body.
Thank you Veg – you are completely correct in all respects, including that he simply does not want to see it – I can send him as many links to "meat is bad for you" or "dairy is bad for you" as I like, he is university educated (as am I), loves arguing because it was Philosophy. He accuses me of being too thin (my BMI sometimes wavers below 18.5, but that just means I'm not eating enough carbs so I up my carbs) –at least I'm keeping my eye on it – he himself is higher than overweight but he doesn't want to see that! Really a lot higher. So is his wife – their diet is ridiculous, and I fear for their two kids.

But as you observe I have done what I can. thanks very much for your input – I have always found your input extremely helpful, whether it's in response to me, or to others!

I hope you stay well!

F
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Farhad
OMS Jul 2014, dx '97-'98, 1st symptoms '91
London, UK
Having just received my MS diagnosis, and trying to get my head around all the things that are going to or have already changed, specifically about diet, exercise and lifestyle changes I am beginning to undertake, there are many articles I will be reading, digesting and weighing in the balance of as much information as I can glean, some of the diet / MS connection are the hardest to get a handle on.

I'm a big time carnivore, (or at least I was), I'm going to change, I've already stopped most meat, but a little poultry, and I'm lucky enough to enjoy fish, some of which I can catch for myself as I'm a four season fisherman. But after 54 years of eating meat, that is going to be the biggest and hardest change to make to my diet.

So if one eats an occasional meal that contains meat or meat products, will that cause a blip in my progress towards controlling my MS through diet?

A single article, (apparently well thought out and balanced), is not going to kick me off the route I have planned, but I also want to gain as much general knowledge about OMS, diet, blips and recovery so I'll be following any other posts on this thread!
Be well, live long and prosper!
Hi farrier

Welcome to this forum and welcome to this lifestyle – nothing would alarm me more than to think that my post would in any way divert you from following this site to the letter!

Personally when I came across Paleo (a month before OMS) I quit dairy immediately – all programs would have you quit dairy and I urge you to do so immediately – people seem to find it harder than meat to quit so please stop that immediately and as you continue your investigations (and read George's book) you will soon discover why because it can trigger relapses and disease progression. I avoid it even in microscopic quantities.

As to meat, there is evidence that it causes cancer, and evidence that red meat is particularly bad for MS. Drop all red meat in any quantity, preferably all meat.

I have seen recommendations that skinless boneless chicken breast (not thigh) is okay once in a while but I would rather not do that either. I don't think you'll find many people here who would condone it, or entertain it for themselves.

Fish I also always loved too, and I'm jealous that you fish for yourself! Nevertheless fish is also animal flesh and should be consumed in moderation – focusing on the smaller species lower down the food chain in order to avoid toxins in the environment which swirl around the oceans disregarding any boundaries – mercury being one of them, plastics being another. Goodness those what other pollutants. Aim for at least 2 flesh-free days. Prefer oily fish for their Omega 3 content.

Read both of Professor J's books starting with Overcoming MS – then read The China Study too, then watch Forks Over Knives.

As Veg, says in her reply to my post, a post that was intended only to help one of my friends and his children (they don't have MS, but he and his wife are both very obese, and two kids 5, and 1) and which I now very much regret and would have removed if a moderator so judges: people will find any excuse to keep doing what they have been doing and love doing – don't be one of them!

There are many wiser heads than mine on this site (including Veg) who can help you on your road to recovery which is a bright and sunny road and the diet and lifestyle is a wonderful way to live! Keep coming back to this forum and you will find many compassionate why is people who will help you. Do not forget the meditation.

Welcome, good luck, and good health!
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Farhad
OMS Jul 2014, dx '97-'98, 1st symptoms '91
London, UK
Lerakant wrote: Hi farrier

Welcome to this forum and welcome to this lifestyle – nothing would alarm me more than to think that my post would in any way divert you from following this site to the letter!

Personally when I came across Paleo (a month before OMS) I quit dairy immediately – all programs would have you quit dairy and I urge you to do so immediately – people seem to find it harder than meat to quit so please stop that immediately and as you continue your investigations (and read George's book) you will soon discover why because it can trigger relapses and disease progression. I avoid it even in microscopic quantities.


Thanks for the welcome. I am sure the reality and the truth of OMS will catch up with me sooner than later, and I'll change my diet totally. I do understand about the difficulties and dangers of testing the old diet / lifestyle on the body system, under the new diet.

As to meat, there is evidence that it causes cancer, and evidence that red meat is particularly bad for MS. Drop all red meat in any quantity, preferably all meat.

I have seen recommendations that skinless boneless chicken breast (not thigh) is okay once in a while but I would rather not do that either. I don't think you'll find many people here who would condone it, or entertain it for themselves.


If you follow scientific studies about foods, just about everything causes cancer when over fed to lab animals, I'm not denigrating the studies, but after 54 years of eating meat, and being an ardent amateur cook, competition BBQ cook, hunter and all around carnivore, I'd be surprised if continuing to eat meat, will cause cancer that I don't already have. The kick down on the recovery is where I see the probably problems, (in my case), and I don't want to threaten the chances of continuing recovery, so like most idiots, I'll probably try to eat the old way at least once.

Fish I also always loved too, and I'm jealous that you fish for yourself! Nevertheless fish is also animal flesh and should be consumed in moderation – focusing on the smaller species lower down the food chain in order to avoid toxins in the environment which swirl around the oceans disregarding any boundaries – mercury being one of them, plastics being another. Goodness those what other pollutants. Aim for at least 2 flesh-free days. Prefer oily fish for their Omega 3 content.


The Trout I eat are not really susceptible to most of the run off pollution problems, (there are PCB and Mercury problems at some of the lower altitudes, and in some specific lakes), as I'm fishing mountain lakes and rivers over 5,000', for the river fish, and over 7,500' for the mountain lakes, I even caught a couple of Tiger Trout at 9,800' last week.

Read both of Professor J's books starting with Overcoming MS – then read The China Study too, then watch Forks Over Knives.

As Veg, says in her reply to my post, a post that was intended only to help one of my friends and his children (they don't have MS, but he and his wife are both very obese, and two kids 5, and 1) and which I now very much regret and would have removed if a moderator so judges: people will find any excuse to keep doing what they have been doing and love doing – don't be one of them!


The reading and watching is on my list, I have the books on order at the library.

As an ex morbidly obese person, I was over 460 lbs 3 years ago, but changes to my diet, and getting off my ass and out fishing for the last 20 months have got me down to 247 lbs already. I'm try not to be an Ostrich about it, but I want to shake the bars of the diet cage and scream that life'snot fair!

There are many wiser heads than mine on this site (including Veg) who can help you on your road to recovery which is a bright and sunny road and the diet and lifestyle is a wonderful way to live! Keep coming back to this forum and you will find many compassionate why is people who will help you. Do not forget the meditation.

Welcome, good luck, and good health!


You're all stuck with me, (I'm afraid), as the site with the most interesting and positive information, (even if I'm kicking and screaming now), I'll be a limpet with the mouth and gut of a leach, I intend to turn my MS around and be fit, healthy and mobile until senility takes me, however soon that is! ;)
Be well, live long and prosper!
Not just animal studies, but Population ones – see what the WHO has said recently processed meats definitely cause cancer and redmeat probably do. But we are not on here to talk about cancer so also see this one about Multiple Sclerosis and meat specifically:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6468
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Farhad
OMS Jul 2014, dx '97-'98, 1st symptoms '91
London, UK
Tomorrow, late now today, I will find the post by George that really sums up why not. Any form of roulette is just that roulette you don't know if or when or not but if it is where you are going and what path you are on do you really want to be a passenger and risk not reaching your aimed for destination or do you want to sit there driving your way to where you want to go.

Can relate to the kicking and screaming, I find comfort in doing what I do as that is what I can do and perhaps a bit OCD about it but it fits my character and desire to try.

Meditation yes that space for shuting the head talking off, my head can chatter fire and is very hard to quell. There is an excellent easy to listen to pod cast on here for following a breathing meditation. Very easy to use.

Does it get eaiser, yes it does. It is now what I do how we eat and it is second nature and work and family accept this is what we are. Don;t go hungry this way of living is not about diet it is about changing what you eat but not being hungry, you will need to adjust you preception of a plate of food, you will eat more but it is way less calorie dense. I eat three main meals a day and at least 2 more decent snacks plus fruit. To get you started.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3223&hilit=todays+menu
It gets so much easier - I am an ex-smoker and once upon a time when I was quitting smoking I felt deprived. Now I can't stand the smell of cigarettes and feel so lucky to be a non smoker - it is so much nicer. Now I feel the same way about cheese - when I started OMS I was at a party and sat in front of a wheel of brie soaked in claret and then aged in an oak barrel or whatever they do and watched it slowly get gooier and melted and felt so unlucky and deprived. Now I can't imagine eating that stuff and the clogged up feeling that I wasn't even aware it gave me until I stopped.
When you really get clean of all these fatty and heavy foods you feel really good and realise that it isn't deprivation at all - it is simply a new, healthier choice.
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