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I had a rethink about fat intake in general after reading some of Esselstyn. I had taken for granted that we need about 1/3rd of our total energy intake in the form of fats (this is stated by assorted authorities), but thought to experiment following Esselstyn's commendation to eliminate all oils from the diet. Obviously the sat and doctored fats/oils were out anyway, but now EVOO, rape oil, etc elided. Just leaving occasional traces to prevent things sticking whilst cooking, and oils that are constituents of natural ingredients (of course aiming for whole veg & fruit), plus a couple of tablespoons of flax daily.
It's been about a couple of months and I can't claim to notice much difference in me so far. I'm not exercising as much in this grotty dark slush and ice weather, but still get out for walks and occasional jogs. Energy feels the same. Body weight the same (which I put down to loss of muscle as I feel flabbier).
My prime objective is to protect and repair nerves, so sacrifices of eating pleasure seem irrelevant. No idea if just autosuggestion, but some areas that were mostly variable pain seem to be morphing into a bit more tingles - whether real or not, it feels encouraging.

I now question the need to add any oil (beyond flax) to our food. Just question. As to weight loss, I was quite fit before this diet change, on the diet I lost some weight, but seem to have stabilised. I wonder if our assumptions of what is a healthy weight get skewed to the tubby side as everywhere around us are overweight people, and even those who seem more healthy may be a bit chubby compared to our jungle (natural) state. Ie. what many would call skinny may be our healthy.

Someone mentioned, in a completely different discussion, about fat's "mouth feel" (I think re. chocolate). This made be think that my lifelong attraction to some of the junkier eating, if just because I was hooked on having a slimy sensation in my mouth, was pathetic. That thought actually seems to make any lust for oils on/in food seem naive (in an OMS context), for me that is. I'm happy either with or without.

George mentions adding such as EVOO to dishes. I'm unclear whether this is because the assumption is that our craving for that mouth-feel is likely to be so strong that a little should be allowed in order to keep our spirits up (ie. the more strong willed should go without if they can), or whether he's saying we actually need so much fat intake. Though not a permit to slosh oil about like a TV chef.

I bet he's mentioned this (recommended total fat/oil intake) in the book, but I can't remember. But whilst cutting back on oil intake, I don't think I've lost any energy, and adding more jumpers makes up for some loss of insulation. Anyway apart from nuisance nerves (some from unrelated injuries like bike crashes, slipped disk etc) I think I'm just as able any day to run a decent 10k. So perhaps a basically oil-less diet is a win, if energy and stamina are good, and if nerves are nurtured and protected.

I've side stepped the food diary theme, apologies.
Hi Lisa

I haven't purposely stopped taking fish and flax oils - I just ran out probably three months ago but I haven't made a point of popping to the shop that I normally buy the high quality oils from (I assume they are high quality - they are expensive). Also I figured that next time I would try buying flax seeds rather than the oil if they retain their freshness longer but I need to search the UK posts on here to find out where people are buying theirs from and buy a grinder. So I've just been a little bit lazy about it all.

I do eat fish usually small tinned mackerel twice a week, and wild Alaskan salmon steak three times a month and other non-omega 3 rich fish and prawns .

Thank you for your concern and I will try and get back on track sooner rather than later.
Mess Positve

So you are relying on the oil in the food that you are eating and the flax seed? and feeling ok on it. I'm not sure I could follow the Esselstyn path, well I know I couldn't it for the sake of keeping my spirit up it would be just too restrictive. However I know I had already given up lots other things, dairy, red meat, chocolate, cakes and biscuits so it could be argued give up the oil! I suppose there would still be the oil in omega3 rich fish etc. However for the moment I'm going to use the excuse of my dry skin to tell myself I need my EVOO.

I wish you well on it, will be interesting to hear how you feel six months down the line.

Get your point about what is slim, skinny and natural jungle norm. Having said that you see a lot of fat apes/gorillas or maybe they are just the ones in Zoos.
Hi Pipo did you listen to George's intervew with the Self Healing Coach?

I have finally got over about a 8 week attack after having a considerable amount of dairy at a restaurant; the attack began the very next day.
Never again!

It sounds like you may have lost the focus and that can happen when we get affected by all different types of ideas.
I tried to copy the link for you but they have now removed the free option that George originally posted; you now have to buy it, which is a real shame.
If anyone can pick up the free link let us know.

Listening to the link will give you reasons to get you back on track. :D
Dx 1992 OMS 25-2-09
It's interesting really and the evidence is certainly mounting for diet to resolve heart disease. We have McDougal, Dean Ornish, Campbell and Esselstyn all with similar systems for reversing heart disease. (strokes chin thoughtfully)
Thought this topic had died a death a long time ago. Looks like it's been brought to life again. :)

I'm personally fed up with people telling me that I need to put weight on but then again the answer "maybe it's you that needs to lose weight" is not so polite is it?

If I got told that I would say what you thought, but then they know that so do not say, lol

Mess Positive
Swank detailed a max oils per day (as well as sat fat) and on McDougall.com there is an article that he wrote from talking with Swank re why he had given an oils allowance, transpires Swank would rather have not but felt it made the diet more palatable for people and therefore more likely to stick to it. It is an interesting read. If you go to the site and enter Swank in the search engine it is the first link.

I personally am eating close to what you are too.
I no longer have added flaxseed oil, I do have two tablespoonds of ground flaxseed (with sunflower and pumpkin seed) plus a table spoon of whole flax seeds at each breakfast. and 3 grams of high concentration fish oil a day and the rest is just from nuts and whole foods. I now find oily food greasey and as you say slimey in the mouth if there is too much oil.
I did however do the 9 months or so of heavy loading of fish oil and had 20 mls of flaxseed oil for about a further year+.
My nails and hair are fine.

What is the major difference (energy is fine), I do very easy very quick very comfortable stools that breakup in water into a fiberous mass. Gone are the long stools like greased food coming out of a sausage machine. Sorry if you feel TMI. I have a slow transit too so this is good news.

I am always open to diet tweaks, I follow OMS with my personal changes following alergy test and a gut feeling.
Hmm, interesting, looks like 2011 is the year to cut oil use down to an absolute minimum and concentrate on getting the essential fats from whole foods where possible. For some reason, I always thought it was 60g of oil that was allowed but he talks of between 10g to 30g in that interview.
I constructed a King Prawn curry a couple of days ago that was zero added oil and it tasted pretty much bang on. I'm yet to perfect a technique for oriental/stir fry dishes yet though.

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