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How's everyone doing today?
he he, just trying to bump this up again and give it equal time to water therapy.

But I did notice that B12 and K2 are in feces, so I thought I'd mention that.

Diagnosis: Jan 2010, OMS April 2010.
Wow guys.
This is so interesting...!
Does anyone know of anyone personally with MS who has considered this?
I am convinced there is some sort of link for sure but not entirely convinced that 'transpoosions' are the answer :-)
I don't know of anyone with MS being treated this way, but my friend's baby son was treated with fecal therapy because he was overcome with C.diff. and the case was very serious.

Interesting article.
I was thinking of not mentioning this, but your partner may be able to help you out with this... even during "normal" oral sex (first time posted those words on the website), there's all kinds of bacteria from many locations... ahem. So go forth err down... it might be good for you (and her/him)


Diagnosis: Jan 2010, OMS April 2010.
These researchers have found that people all tend to have one of three possible "gut ecosystems": http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2 ... stems.html
I wonder if fecal therapy could change your gut ecosystem type? (also thought I'd bump this topic up to keep Alex happy ;) )
Dr Karl is currently doing some research into this. Here is one of his Great Moments in Science episodes related to this topic but not directly referring to MS.

Awesome, but I think I'd rather try hookworms first.
I started out thinking this might be one of those groan making reads (like so much on many MS BBs), but now wonder if there might be something in it. A very dear and generally pretty healthy friend got Crohn's disease badly, lost half her body mass. This seemed to be on the mend, but Parkinson's then reared its ugly head. It was all downhill from there and in a couple of years she died.

The gut flora/neurology link does make sense. If bad bacteria can spew a continuous level of toxins which can effect nerve cell health, then the thought that comes to mind is: is the Swank/Jelenik diet in part about pushing our flora in the right direction. Is bad fat food for bad bacteria? Are our greens actually internal antibacterial against the bad bacteria, and nutrient for the good.

Many herbivores eat their pats, give the same to their newborn. That is a strong urge, and makes sense as gut flora presumably can't be passed by the umbilical. So what do our infants get from Cow & Gate (in the line of good gut flora), I suspect the company prides itself on the lack of bacteria in its products.

Could it be that the various aspects of our diet that actually work are doing so by pushing down the bad gut bacteria and nurturing the good. Something that the conventional MS drugs don't do.

When people recount how they indulged in some diet backsliding, and then soon had a relapse or bad time, that seems fast acting. Quite a different response to the time scale of making our blood thinner, incrementally replacing all our soft body structures over the years. Brittle fat structure replaced with flexible. The bad binge followed by a hiatus does sound as if a gut flora could be involved.

We don't see our shit until it has finished doing whatever it did as a rich living soup inside us. If we saw our gut contents as a bubbling mass in a great glass fishbowl, perhaps with logging equipment attached which details the bacteria functions and chemistry at work in real time ... then we might think rather differently about our insides and diet.

Perhaps there are various stable concoctions of bad flora that we can get/carry, for some people carbohydrates push it in the wrong direction, for others (their flora) that's not a key factor, other things may be. Could some of the food intolerances be because they perturb our inner flora in negative directions. I.e. there's no allergic reaction in us, but there is in our flora - and that effects us.

Just as mouth gum bacteria can effect our general health (heart etc), helicobacter pylori the stomach, etc., so a gut full of bad guys could have a huge and pernicious effect elsewhere in us. Presumably our bad flora is low level toxin for us or it would destroy it's host (us). But bad material manages to get through the BBB and have devastating effects. It is persistent, relentless. And whatever is the MS force, it must be counter intuitive as we're not twigging the primary forces yet. These bad bacteria could be stealth enemies.

As bacteria are at war with one another, presumably the dominant collective (of bacteria) struggle to keep the upper hand, so fight against their opposition. The chemical means that they use to wage war, may be the very chemicals that through our blood stream effect our CNS.

Whatever is the driving force of MS, it seems that we don't know its true nature (cause), even though we've been looking in many different dimensions of our bodies. So my deduction is that it is likely to be hiding where we have not been looking. And what better area that one that instinctively disgusts us and is little researched or debated.

I've always been unhappy with what I see as the the herd instinct to assume that remedies are made by putting things in our mouths (food, drugs, etc ...). Now I'm wondering if it is more that the trouble is what is already inside us. Something far more persistent than what we swallow.

So to complete this volte face and "think different" theme, perhaps we should consider of our internal flora (& shit) as our friend, our mutual (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutualism_%28biology%29). That we can't live without it, and we need to understand it and nurture it. Protect it from enemies (bad bacteria) and feed the good.

I don't mean to detract from any lovely spiritual thoughts or meditative nurturing, our rest remedies or sun worship. But rather make sure my head is not hiding in the sand (my anus and the truth elsewhere!). The effect of stress hormones might trigger an effect of the bad bacterial chemicals that wash our myelin, so bring about the damage causing state (or perhaps the chemical triggers local chronic vasoconstriction in the CNS blood supply which in turn damages nerves).

Crikey, the neuros are going to freak at this! First diet, then veins, now transpoosion.
Another piece in the jigsaw puzzle perhaps.

It seems that histamine production may be compromised by digestive deficiencies.
And histamines may be involved in vasoconstriction/dilation control.

PS. I now think that "digestion flora" might be a more constructive title for such a thread.
Perhaps we should see the health of that as a great and essential friend, not as something as offensive as can be.
Mess Positive - I'm so glad you bumped this up again!
Ever since reading this original post and listening to the pod cast I have been quite obsessed with the topic :shock:

So much so that I am going flying from Bris to Sydney on 10th June for an appointment at Dr Borody's clinic.
It's called Sydney's Centre for Digestive Diseases.

You see... I agree that the gut/bowels are the key to many problems. The bacteria thing seems to make much sense.
I'm not sure how many of you on here would identify as having either IBS, chrone's or something similar but all I know is that my digestive habits have never been the same since my trip to India in 2006 when I came home with extra baggage - a parasite!
Since then I HAVE to take massive amounts of fibre to be able to function as normal people do. When I was pregnant the problem seemed to reverse which is the opposite to a lot of women apparently. (Sorry for too much information).

I am somewhat embarrassed to admit that at the start of this year (before I read George's book), I paid a local nutritionist place here quite a sum of money to do a 4 month program of a - wait for it - high fat, high protein, meat based diet!!!! Yep, my recommendations from them was to eat at least 80g protein and 200g fat per day. I was strongly discouraged from eating more that 15 or so grams of carbohydrates which included veg and fruit. Definitely no bread, grains, etc. Needless to say I felt absolutely rubbish for the 6 weeks that I stuck to it very strictly. And completely backed up.... I'm pretty stubborn and would've happily stuck to the foods and supplements for the entire period to give it a good go but I ended up with 2 yeast infections, UTI, sinus infection, sore ears and a chest infection. When I went back reporting that I felt terrible - their constant response was that it was the candida was on its way out of my body and to stay strong and cut out any sweet foods. The exact quote was 'when people get stressed, they often reach for sweet things. Because desserts, is stressed, spelled backwards'. Needless to say, I switched over to George's program the day that I quit the other.

So in short, I absolutely still have faith in George's guidelines and plan to stick with 100%, but in addition I am interested in the 'candida' overgrowth idea. I am watching intensely to see how Bjorn (nature boy) goes with his journey.

The toughest thing is that I am going to struggle with is the serious lack of any 'sweet foods' on the anti-canida thing. Fruit is my friend and I've just discovered the date and almond ball recipe on here :-)

I know of several people with MS who have taken different paths to remission and the consistent thing is that both were based largely on 'whole foods' fruit and veg and (I hate to admit this - meat). I still feel strongly against eating the meat and dairy so just figure that as per George's recommendations I'll substitute the meat with seafood.

Can anyone else shed light on their experiences? How many of you have been told you have 'IBS' or similar?

Thanks again Mess Positive, I'm really look forward to my appointment in Sydney and promise to report back.

George - do you happen to know of any research being done into this at the moment?????
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