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Actually one of Professor Jelineks FAQs specifically mentions soy products as being fine.

Q Professor Jelinek allows legumes including soy, but after reading lots of information elsewhere, such as Ashton Embry and the authors of the 'MS recovery diet' who do not allow legumes, I am confused and it seems that soy in particular appears to be an unhealthy product. I want to do everything possible so I need advice.

Legumes, including soy, are extremely healthy foods, and are full of protein, which is useful for people not eating animal products. They have been used for centuries by many societies and there is no clear documentation of any health problems associated with their use. Some have suggested they be avoided by people with immune based diseases, but there does not appear to be any strong basis for this suggestion. Soy in particular would appear to have many advantages over dairy products, and most studies suggest better health outcomes for those consuming soy products regularly.


Always good to read the FAQs.
http://www.overcomingmultiplesclerosis. ... rces/FAQs/

There is also one on Omega 6.

Q If omega-6s promote inflammation should I omit them altogether?
It is important for optimal health to have both omega-3 and omega-6. These are essential fatty acids, that is, health cannot be sustained without them. The right balance is about 2-4:1 omega-6 to omega-3. This is much lower than the current ratio in our society of about 16-25:1.
Wendy

Diagnosis Dec 1998 OMS Feb 2010 Retreat Feb 2012
Nothing at all to do with soy milk or Omega 3 and Omega 6 ratios, but re "why certain diets work and others don't and also why some diets work for some people but don't work for others. For example, it's very possible for two people to follow the same basic diet program but also have two completely different omega 3/6 profiles,"

I suspect that the reason some diets work for some and not others, and why the same diet will work for some and not others is not just to do with different "interpretations" and choices made in relation to foods consumed as part of the diet chosen, but because we are all different, and our bodies have different needs. This is not to say that the general principles of each approach will not broadly apply, but that some people will achieve outstanding results (such as Korimako/Wendy, and there is no disputing her remarkable recovery, which is not just subjective, but is objectively measurable as one of her recent posts shows), while others will get less benefit, and some may get none at all. If one size did fit all there would be no one at all getting any benefits out of following diets other than OMS, and this is not true, as some people achieve results by following the Wahls protocol, which given it's sat fat and meat intake should theoretically be disastrous for MS if OMS was the only way to go. Equally, if we were all the same then all of the drugs used to treat MS would have the same outcomes with everyone who took them, and this is also blatantly not the case. I believe that a huge part of the problem is that we still don't really know what causes MS, and I believe that there is more than one cause, and this is why different approaches/drugs work or don't work for different people.

I also suspect that if studies were able to be done where people were following absolutely identical food choices (suitably adjusted for height, weight, exercise levels etc) that there would still be differing results/outcomes for different people. This is why I get annoyed when people who have had good results sometimes post that the reason people who are not getting the same are having problems is because they are not 100% "doing it right" - blame games are not an appropriate support method and people should not assume that just because they have had good results the same will apply without fail for everyone else.

Member veg recently posted a link to an old thread about why the diet doesn't work if you don't do it 100%, and when I first found the OMS site, that was one of the threads that I read with interest. However, some of the posts on that thread were so vicious and vitriolic that I almost decided not to bother any further with this site - I wanted nothing to do with people who could be so nasty.

I realise that what I've written above will be seen by some as just being provocative, and no doubt there will be people who will be quick to point out how much research there is from Swank, Prof J, and many others, but I am not in anyway questioning the amount of research done - I'm just pointing out that we are all different and our outcomes will also be different. One thing that I absolutely do not disagree with is that a world without McDonalds, KFC, white bread, and all of the other nasty over-processed chemical and additive laden foods would be a far better and healthier place.

Rant over now - I'm going up to my veggie patch to pick some of my home grown silver beet which has only every seen rain and bird poo, and you can all go back to sleep......... :oops:
I think you are underestimating the power of hope, and the empowerment that comes from taking control and the belief that recovery is possible. We can change our mind to change our health. OMS gives us the tools to do that.

I'm not saying that MS is 'all in the mind', and I'm not saying OMS is the only way but that the remarkable stories of recovery all have determination, belief and patience at their core.

PS lucky you with the silverbeet - rabbits got mine but they ignored the kale and cavalo nero ;-)
Wendy

Diagnosis Dec 1998 OMS Feb 2010 Retreat Feb 2012
Wendy

I think you may have misunderstood me again, and I actually completely agree with what you have said immediately above, especially in relation to the "the power of hope, and the empowerment that comes from taking control". Empowerment is also about sharing knowledge and we should see learning as a lifelong process. My relationship with my MS Nurse has been gradually going downhill over time, because I refuse to swallow without question the standard and conventional "wisdoms" about MS, including platitudes about diet, drugs and other MS related topics.

I said above that "that I almost decided not to bother any further with this site - I wanted nothing to do with people who could be so nasty". However, I am a pragmatist at heart, and decided that in my own best interests I would do my best to ignore the nasty people I have referred to. And, I owe Prof J a big vote of thanks on at least one major aspect of the conventional MS treatment I was prescribed, because it was from a small couple of paragraphs in the OMS book that I started digging deeper into what Rebif might have been doing to make me feel so much worse. I took control, and decided to stop the Rebif, and have no regrets about doing so, but as Prof J is quite clear about "doing whatever it takes" such a decision may not be the right one for others.

I am a researcher by nature, training, and in my work, and If I did not have a reasonable degree of faith in the validity of the work that Prof J has done, I would not be bothering with this site or forum, even if my posts sometimes seem to others to be questioning or provocative. Furthermore, my dearest wish would be for everyone with MS to experience the same healing that you have (regardless of what diet or lifestyle approach they may choose to follow),or even better, get back 100% to what they were before MS decided to come along and rudely stuff up their lives.
Don't go anywhere Tiger T - you are a much better researcher than I am. I really value your contributions.
Indeed — thanks, I forgot my facts there.

The US, China and Japan are right up there for soy bean use.
I read that in a book of Pollan's (In Defence of Food ? not
Cooked or The Omnivore's Dilemma ??...)


Cheers,
Michael
I didn't read about avoiding soy milk in Overcoming Multiple Sclerosis book? I've been consuming approx 500ml per day of low saturated fat soy milk and now I can't have that??
I'm 100% dedicated to this diet and don't even think about eating anything I shouldn't and now I feel I've failed in having soy milk.
KylieD wrote: I didn't read about avoiding soy milk in Overcoming Multiple Sclerosis book? I've been consuming approx 500ml per day of low saturated fat soy milk and now I can't have that??
I'm 100% dedicated to this diet and don't even think about eating anything I shouldn't and now I feel I've failed in having soy milk.



Some people with MS don't do soy - part of the Best Bet diet approach which also excludes legumes - this is nothing at all to do with the OMS diet which sees soy as a healthy option and in no way suggests that it should be avoided. OMS is an evidence based approach and there isn't evidence that drinking soy in any way impacts badly on MS. It is suggested as an alternative to dairy both in milk and yogurt forms and also in fermented forms as miso and as tofu and tempeh ( but check the sat fat levels) There is nothing wrong with you drinking soy - just some people (including myself) don't drink it - I don't because it makes me feel sick.

There are some things that I avoid and others that I consume that are not within OMS guidelines, but I keep them to myself so as not to confuse and upset others on this website. At times i wish that people would consider this before posting advice that is contrary to the OMS guidelines (I mean this as an observation rather than a criticism, I think).
Thank you nryan, I am now concerned because of the previous posts highlighting that soy milk is high in omega-6 and my omega-3 to 6 ratio may be out of balance. I do however consume 2 small cans of salmon every day so hopefully this would balance the equation?
Can anyone give me a simple way of working out what my 3 to 6 ratio is please?
Many thanks
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