S4E2 Happy 10th Anniversary, Overcoming MS! A look at what lies ahead with CEO Grazina Berry

Geoff Allix (1s): 

Welcome to Living Well with MS, the podcast from Overcoming MS, a healthy lifestyle charity celebrating its 10th year of serving the MS community. I’m your host, Geoff Allix. The goal of our organization and this podcast is to inform, support, and empower people with MS to lead full and happy lives. We’re excited you could join us for this new episode. Make sure to check out this episode’s show notes for more information and useful links. You can find these on our website at www.overcomingms.org/podcast or on whichever podcast platform you used to tune in to our program. If you enjoy the show, please spread the word about us on your social media channels or leave a review wherever you tune in to our podcast. 

 

Geoff Allix (47s): 

Have questions or ideas to share? Email us at [email protected] or you can reach out to me directly on Twitter @GeoffAllix. We’d love to hear from you. Finally, don’t forget to subscribe to Living Well with MS on your favorite podcast platform so you never miss an episode. Now, let’s meet our guest for this episode. Happy 2022, and welcome to the premiere episode of Living Well with MS. We’re thrilled to launch the fourth season of our podcast with a very special episode, celebrating the 10th anniversary of the Overcoming MS charity. What better way to mark the occasion and start on a hopeful new year than an in-depth conversation with OMS CEO, Grazina Berry. 

 

Geoff Allix (1m 32s): 

Since assuming leadership of the organization almost 18 months ago, Grazina has led a transformation that has focused on strengthening Overcoming MS’s ties with its community, health care professionals, and the MS community at large. In this episode, we will learn about the exciting changes that lie ahead as OMS cements its place as the world’s leading MS lifestyle charity. Welcome to the premiere of the fourth season of the Living Well with MS podcast from the world’s leading MS Healthy lifestyle charity. This is our season opener and 77th episode to date. To mark the occasion, we are proud to welcome back the Chief Executive of Overcoming MS, Grazina Berry. Thanks for being on the program again, Grazina. 

 

Grazina Berry (2m 12s): 

Hi, Geoff. Thank you for having me back. I must have got something right the first time as you invited me to come back again. 

 

Geoff Allix (2m 22s): 

I’m glad to have you back. Our fourth season is just one of the milestones Overcoming MS is marking this year, and the biggest one, most notable is the organization’s 10th anniversary. What kind of birthday party are you planning to celebrate a decade of helping people with MS live healthier and better lives? Probably would be socially distanced in the UK. 

 

Grazina Berry (2m 52s): 

That’s fine. Definitely. Well, first of all, congrats to you, Geoff, as well, being the podcast host for our fourth season. That’s a celebration as well. 

 

Geoff Allix (3m 5s): 

I can’t believe it’s been this long. 

 

Grazina Berry (3m 8s): 

I know, but indeed, bearing in mind all the upheaval and uncertainty around us, especially over the last two years, I think we could all do with a little party, couldn’t we? The thing about the 10th, 10 is such a big number, isn’t it? If I imagined this party, it would have to be one that is really filled with fun, pride, enjoyment, lots of reflections over the standout moments, maybe a few tears here and there, giggles, raise a glass or two, and I think to do the anniversary and all the achievements of the organization over the last 10 years justice. 

 

Grazina Berry (3m 52s): 

We should probably have done parties. I think that’s doable by technology, isn’t it? We’d like to celebrate with our community who’ve helped us get to where we are and we’ll be looking to unveil the plans in the new year, wanting that to be an element of surprise as well. The listeners and you, Geoff, will just have to watch the space. 

 

Geoff Allix (4m 16s): 

In your view, what’s happened in the last 10 years? How has OMS evolved over the past decade? 

 

Grazina Berry (4m 26s): 

Wow, that is a massive question, really. I think to answer it in the best possible way, to do all the achievements justice, I think we should try and jump into that time machine, go back to the beginning, and reflect on some of those standout moments of which the very first one has to be 2012. The fundamental starting point when the charity began, established by the amazing Linda Bloom, working very closely with Professor George Jelinek and Gary McMahon, the CEO at the time. That was the humble beginning in Australia. 

 

Grazina Berry (5m 8s): 

Then in 2013, the charity started distributing the OMS books for free in the UK and held the very first UK conference. I suppose these kinds of events focused on information, very much marked the next couple of years, 2014 in particular. 2014 is worth a bit of a pause as well because we started funding open-access research projects at the neuroepidemiology unit at the University of Melbourne. Then 2015 and 2016 were also really, really important because we began to define our focus internationally. 

 

Grazina Berry (5m 52s): 

We registered as a charity in Australia in the US in 2015. We really went all out organizing residential retreats. Geoff, I believe you’ve been to one of these immersive, multi-day experiences connecting people with one another, beginning to build communities, but also informing them about the OMS program. 

 

Geoff Allix (6m 20s): 

Yes, I did. A quite transformative thing going to an OMS retreat, but, obviously, they had to stop because of COVID. Also, I’m guessing there are issues with scalability as well. 

 

Grazina Berry (6m 32s): 

Yes, absolutely. 

 

Geoff Allix (6m 33s): 

It’s not going to be for thousands of people at each one. 

 

Grazina Berry (6m 36s): 

Unfortunately. I wish they could be, but alas, they can’t. However, perhaps later, when we come to talking about plans for the future, I can share with you some of the ideas that we’re actively developing and pursuing for reimagining those important events. Back into the time machine, in 2016, I wanted to mention as well because OMS went to the US to raise awareness of the organization and the program, visiting three cities, Boston, New York, and Los Angeles. Then 2017 and 2018, again, quite a lot of events. 

 

Grazina Berry (7m 15s): 

There was one in Northern Ireland. There were a few retreats in Wales, actually, and Australia. Very importantly, that’s the year when we launched Overcoming MS Circles. Twenty, I believe. We had 20 in 2018, and these are volunteer-led community support groups. Really important in terms of grassroots activism in those early days, but also connecting people. 2019, another memorable year. UK conference in Edinburgh followed by a high-profile event at the House of Commons in London, and importantly, Geoff, the much-loved podcast began. 

 

Grazina Berry (8m 12s): 

2019, a really important year. Then we went into turmoil, complex year, I would say. 2020, of course, the pandemic hit. We started to change program and the organization with Gary stepping down and my arrival. Then 2021, again, the pandemic isn’t over and it’s still causing havoc, but that’s the year that marked our new three-year strategy publication in March and growth in our community to 94 circles that we have today, our online platform, but also growing the strength of our community voice. 

 

Grazina Berry (8m 57s): 

Really, going back to your question, Geoff, about evolution, I think you’ll notice that the charity started by the immense focus on raising awareness, spreading the word, about the pioneering work of Professor Jelinek. A lot of effort went into high-profile raising events. We then started working more deeply with people through retreats, and as you said, from your own personal experience, impacting them really profoundly, but the numbers were quite small, and they were pretty costly to deliver. Gradually, we’ve started to think about scale and how technology could help us reach more people. 

 

Grazina Berry (9m 41s): 

My arrival, as I reflect on it, marked a crossroads point at the charity. I led a broad review exercise speaking with the community, trustees, and the founders, of course, the team, lots of other MS organizations, partners, healthcare professionals, looking at whatever data we could really get hold of. Where is MS prevalence heading, for example, and then sadly it’s heading north, isn’t it? It’s rising. Through all of this, we realized three really important things. One was that awareness alone is not enough to enable or motivate people to change their lifestyle by adopting the OMS program to the extent that those changes really stick and do so at scale. 

 

Grazina Berry (10m 30s): 

We also realized that we need to hold people’s hands and support them to become much more attuned to what they need in the contexts in which they live. A one size fits all approach really would not work. Third, we cannot achieve impact at scale by doing it alone. We need to work with healthcare professionals and other organizations. As a result of all this evaluation, the new strategy came to be that has begun that shift to combine awareness alongside some fundamental organizational developments really across our four goals – inform, support, empower, and collaborate. 

 

Geoff Allix (11m 18s): 

You hinted that there are some new things in the pipeline. Is there anything you could give us a hint of? What are some of the key initiatives you’re introducing? Could you give us a hint at some of the banner projects that might be rolled out this year? 

 

Grazina Berry (11m 38s): 

Yes, it’s going to be a bumper year, Geoff. I can assure you of that. Of course, marked with celebrating the events throughout the year, so perhaps not a big bang. This is the term of a birthday party. Lots of things happening throughout the year and we will be unveiling some really exciting initiatives, and possibly those virtual parties. I can mention a few things without spoiling the surprise that I know the team would be happy for me to share. I think, really importantly, we’ll be celebrating the publication of the OMS Handbook in February. 

 

Grazina Berry (12m 18s): 

This is the new book co-edited by Professor George Jelinek, Dr. Sandra Neate and Dr. Michelle Donaghy with multiple authors adding their voices. Please pre-order your copy not to miss out. You can do it now. We’ll also be refreshing our brand with very generous pro bono support from the fantastic team at JMA in Australia. Geoff, thank you for your contributions to helping us review the brand alongside other ambassadors. This has been a really insightful exercise to do. One of the reasons why we are refreshing is that we aligned ourselves much more closely to our values being inclusive, empowering, community-focused, evidence-based, collaborative, and dynamic, but of course, none of us are naive to expect that brand alone would help us to achieve that. 

 

Grazina Berry (13m 12s): 

This is important because we wish to present a really professional front to our broader audiences, including and especially, healthcare professionals. We will also be ramping up our advocacy initiatives and our work with healthcare professionals. We will be updating our existing information resources and developing new ones, as well as beginning campaigns. We will be looking to bring back events. I know we’ve got so many people in our community who are really, really excited about this and need more face-to-face interactions. We are hoping to trial a new immersive experience of supporting people with MS. 

 

Grazina Berry (13m 59s): 

Taking what was wonderful from the retreats, combining a face-to-face workshop with digital resources to inform, support, and empower people to embrace fully the OMS program. We also want to really boost our community engagement and support our ambassadors and circles by investing in additional resources. We will be rolling out, as a bit of a spin-off, a webinar program that is with Dr. Aaron Boster, having piloted the first episode recently, and that’s been incredibly well-received. We were absolutely overwhelmed with questions that people had. 

 

Grazina Berry (14m 45s): 

We want to launch webinars series alongside the more mainstream webinars series. Also importantly, we’ll be starting to tangibly shape our plans in the US. As you can see, Geoff, there is lots and lots to keep us very busy in 2022. 

 

Geoff Allix (15m 7s): 

All right. If OMS was a person and it made new year’s resolutions, what would the OMS’ resolutions for the new year be? 

 

Grazina Berry (15m 15s): 

I don’t know. This is interesting because personally, I tend not to make resolutions, but if I put myself out of this mix, I think probably the most important one would be, be kind to yourself, make more time to listen to your body, look after your body and mind, make time for you. I think all of us are so guilty of not doing that, but alongside this, I think what’s really key as well is to show empathy to others, welcome people to the community, openly, supportively, and without judgment. 

 

Grazina Berry (15m 56s): 

Finally, I would say stick with it. The path of multiple sclerosis is so uncertain for many people but knowing that you’re doing all that you can to live well, may that be your driving force, and especially when you have those darker moments, which are probably inevitable, especially in the world that we live in, where uncertainty just keeps on giving and keeps on challenging us. 

 

Geoff Allix (16m 29s): 

Over time, how have you seen the MS landscape change specifically and also the focus on healthy lifestyle? In a broader sense, bringing a healthy lifestyle, holistic health, how have you seen that change over the years? Did that improve, get worse, or stay the same? 

 

Grazina Berry (16m 48s): 

Goodness, that is another huge question. What I would like to do is just latch onto that number 10, which is peppering our conversation today and, again, reflecting a little bit. Ten years ago, I was working in a mental health organization, a fantastic organization called Richmond Fellowship, that provides a really wide range of community-based mental health services. What I was seeing back then, and we actively practiced, was seeing each individual that came through the door of our services, we saw them as a whole, not a label or a diagnosis. 

 

Grazina Berry (17m 31s): 

We took the time to really understand them so that we could address the cause of their distress and mental health challenges. Peer support was already widely used to enable people to help each other, essentially by sharing their experiences, and the mind-body connection was at the forefront. This is 10 years ago. I saw a very similar picture then when I moved to rare illness, cancer space, and other disease areas, actually. We could see already, especially high disease, diabetes, and others. 

 

Grazina Berry (18m 11s): 

They were all embracing a healthy lifestyle, and more broadly actually, the World Health Organization had been championing a more realistic, personal health management, with encouraging clinicians to look at physical, mental, emotional, and social elements for years. There’s been a lot of very positive development happening for years. When I landed in neurology, in multiple sclerosis, I thought actually, Neurology MS Services does have some catching up to do here, but saying that, I think the tide has really been turning and 2015, the throwback to Overcoming MS, that was an interesting year, as we talked earlier, around our international expansion. 

 

Grazina Berry (18m 57s): 

2015 was also a very interesting year here in the UK. It was interesting because there was this really significant shift happening in the thinking about the treatment of people with MS, so professors from England, alongside a number of international experts, led a really significant research project called Brain Health, Time Matters in MS. 

 

Grazina Berry (19m 37s): 

That examined the various impacts on the MS personal economy. They also explored current practices and diagnosis, treatment, and what the barriers to accessing these might be. The study then emphasized the need for a much faster diagnosis of disease activity. One of the standard recommendations was to start treatment early with disease-modifying treatment, and, I really want to emphasize, lifestyle measures whilst ensuring that decisions about the treatment are shared between the patient and condition. If we look at the National Health Service in the UK now, this long-term plan really supports preventive practice and personalized holistic care that Overcoming MS is all about. 

 

Grazina Berry (20m 31s): 

What we’ve got now, we’ve got health and wellbeing coaches, we’ve got social workers, care coordinators. We can really see that things are changing for the better, and this is incredibly helpful for our cause, Overcoming MS. We need to be able to harness all these positive developments and align ourselves more closely with the changing healthcare systems. We’ve got this fantastic OMS program, which provides a very practical framework to enable people with MS to effectively self-manage the condition and take control. I think this really taps that prevention agenda. 

 

Grazina Berry (21m 12s): 

We need to really begin to own this space as an organization, as a charity. 

 

Geoff Allix (21m 23s): 

How has OMS kept pace with the changes that you’ve seen in the MS landscape? 

 

Grazina Berry (21m 30s): 

Yes, so mentioning Brain Health, Time Matter in MS, there was a campaign launched on the back of it. Overcoming MS signed up to support that initiative alongside other MS organizations. That group of organizations is really vast. It’s not just those MS charities in the UK that we all know about, but also other organizations internationally, the National MS Society in the US and others. We’ve also acknowledged, as an organization, the need to engage with and influence healthcare systems. That’s very much in our new strategy, new plans. 

 

Grazina Berry (22m 11s): 

We joined the Neurological Alliance in 2020 so that we could be part of a collective group of organizations focused on influencing policy, sharing best practices, learning from each other. We’ve also connected with neurologists, MS nurses, and other MS charities through the MS Academy here in England. We’ve contributed, very recently, to a piece of work that explored co-morbidity, so those other illnesses that people with MS are quite likely to have. 

 

Grazina Berry (22m 51s): 

For example, depression, diabetes, hypertension, and others. We’ve also looked at inpatient admissions, especially emergency admissions to hospitals, and the associated costs in patients with MS based on that socioeconomic status across four very specific geographical areas or integrated care systems in England. All this work resulted in a poster called the Wellbeing Gap, One Size MS Service Does Not Fit All. This was presented at the most recent Congress of the European Committee for Treatment and Research in MS, ECTRIMS, as it’s known across the sector. We’re really trying to keep pace with all these developments more than ever before, recognizing that we cannot achieve our ambitions of the end game without tapping the healthcare system and working with others. 

 

Geoff Allix (23m 47s): 

We look back over the last 10 years, but if you look forward, what do you think are some of the important considerations leading OMS into the next decade? 

 

Grazina Berry (24m 5s): 

Wow. We have just stopped talking of the last 10 years now. I wonder what’s next. A great question. The first, most important consideration has to be all about people, Geoff, and actually, it’s quite an internal consideration, the team, the Overcoming MS team and our volunteers. I’m really fortunate to be working with a group of people who really care about work, who are resilient and passionate. It’s going to be so important to make sure that they also feel supported and empowered to do their work, building connections with our community, and really taking pride in what we achieve. 

 

Grazina Berry (24m 48s): 

It’ll also be really important to make sure that they’re able to keep hold of that intrinsic motivation that keeps them going. Really articulately described by a guy called Sharath Jeevan in his book called Intrinsic that I can’t recommend highly enough for people. Another important consideration would be not being afraid to try new things, projects, approaches, not being afraid to change course, but also, being brave about making tough choices and walking away from things that perhaps don’t work so well and just do not have the impact that we seek. Saying that, it will be really key for us to be more vocal and clear about our unique selling point, our USP, being the OMS program, and making sure that it also keeps pace with research developments. 

 

Grazina Berry (25m 43s): 

We will be establishing a new research advisory group, which is a very exciting development. This group will be led by Dr. Aaron Boster, a neurologist from the US who has that research and healthcare brief. The final consideration, but I’m sure there’ll be many more, that being an open-minded organization that really welcomes and embraces new opportunities, tries out partnering with others, and collaborating more, especially with other MS organizations and healthcare systems. This will be very exciting as we begin to focus on expanding and scaling in other geographies, particularly the US, but really exploring those areas where the MS problem is the biggest because they need programs such as ours the most. 

 

Geoff Allix (26m 38s): 

What challenges do you see lying ahead in the future? 

 

Grazina Berry (26m 44s): 

Indeed. It’s not going to be a breeze, is it? To do all these things and especially really crack and tap into healthcare systems, I think there’ll be quite a few. Again, because I think the world is so uncertain, there’ll be so many changes happening. We’ll just have to make sure we are fleet of foot and we’re nimble, able to really respond well. The first one I would single out is the fact that community needs and expectations will continue to change and evolve in line with the world that’s around us. That’s always moving, never stopping. We need to be really responsive to their needs. This will be both a challenge and an opportunity, of course, because we can then try new ideas and ways of working while also retaining our core and what we’re about. 

 

Grazina Berry (27m 40s): 

Another challenge linked to this will be digital fatigue. Technology, as we know, is a really powerful tool. It enabled us, as a charity, to carry on our virtual outreach through the pandemic, but it won’t work or be accessible for everyone. We need to make sure that we develop face-to-face opportunities as well. Being a small charity with lots of ambition, we are so mindful that fundraising remains challenging and will continue being so because there are so many great causes out there, and especially in the MS space, competing for the same pots of money, the evidence of our impact as a charity will be really, really important. 

 

Grazina Berry (28m 27s): 

Another key challenge is, of course, the pandemic. You probably picked me up on this, Geoff, if I didn’t mention the pandemic. I think the pandemic, amongst many other challenges, has really deepened inequalities, those pre-existing inequalities leading to greater unemployment, swelling waiting lists for treatments made those socio-economic circumstances in which people live much more challenging. Well, this really stresses the need for our work, to champion the OMS program, which gives people the tools to live well with MS. As an organization, we need to be so much more attuned to the world around us. 

 

Grazina Berry (29m 7s): 

This is not easy for a small organization with global reach and global ambitions, and alongside this, and very much linked to the pandemic, but we probably all know that healthcare systems have been struggling, not just in the UK, but also in the US and in other areas before the pandemic, but especially now, we can really see how stressed those systems are with massive waiting lists, backlogs of cases, staff burnout. This is a challenge for us as we try to ramp up engagement with influencing healthcare professionals. It really emphasizes the need for us to develop programs that help relieve those stresses. 

 

Grazina Berry (29m 53s): 

We have to come up with some very practical solutions that, for example, that the National Health Service can adopt fairly easily. Again, a tough challenge, but I think, game on. 

 

Geoff Allix (30m 9s): 

How do you feel OMS is connecting, making inroads with the community, and strengthening its ties with the community and the community ties with each other? 

 

Grazina Berry (30m 23s): 

I think that’s a really great question because the community is clearly at the forefront of everything that we do and why we exist as a charity. I would really like to mention and plug a little bit, our very first community engagement survey that we conducted over the summer in August 2021. I want to thank everyone who took the time to answer its 61 questions. It wasn’t a slim survey. It was pretty comprehensive, but that survey has given us so many insights into the lives of people with MS and how OMS can support them better. It told us, for example, that 54% of people with MS will not be discussing a healthy lifestyle with their physician. 

 

Grazina Berry (31m 7s): 

While this may be a result of lots of reasons, we talked about some of them earlier, including the gap in the neurologist curriculum around healthy lifestyle approaches and holistic care, shortages, lack of time, but now more than ever, people need support and advice about stress management, healthy diet, great amounts of vitamin D. This survey is really important for us because it’s helping us build a much better understanding of who our community are, where they live, how they interact with the OMS program in real life, what are some of those barriers to changing their diets, moving more, and what can they expect from us as a charity? 

 

Grazina Berry (31m 50s): 

We are in a really good position, I feel, to improve what we do aligned with our community needs – what they need and what they want. I think what we’re also doing is we’re building much stronger foundations and grassroots levels through our circles program and we’ll look to grow. Again, let’s throwback to 2018, we had 20 circles. We now have 94 in 26 countries worldwide. We have 100 ambassadors to lead these really important community peer support groups, and alongside, we also need to offer our volunteer ambassadors the support that they need. 

 

Grazina Berry (32m 35s): 

That’s really important. Our grassroots advocacy initiative that I mentioned earlier, we started with brilliant leadership by Professor Helen Rees Leahy and Allie Marwick, our advocacy trustees. It’s really crucial too to strengthen connections between individuals and across the community, but also, and really importantly, with healthcare professionals so that people with MS can feel confident to really adopt healthy lifestyles. People can raise the need for healthy lifestyle conversations with health care professionals during appointments, so I believe we’re making great progress, but there’s a lot more work that we need to do, which is great. 

 

Grazina Berry (33m 18s): 

That’s why we’re here. 

 

Geoff Allix (33m 23s): 

If there’s one thing that you could put down as OMS’s legacy for the next decade, what would that key thing be? 

 

Grazina Berry (33m 31s): 

Gosh, I always struggle with those questions. I say pinpoint one thing, because there’s never just one thing. I’m going to try and say three things, Geoff, if I may. 

 

Geoff Allix (33m 42s): 

Okay, fair enough. 

 

Grazina Berry (33m 44s): 

Three things. Well, I think the main one, maybe, it sums up, the head of all the others, is we make it into the mainstream. We are definitely there alongside medical treatments, and we are recommended to every person being diagnosed with MS. Finally, we are regarded as the thought and practice leaders in healthy lifestyle in a massive space. I think these would be really key things for us to get to, this end-game scenario for the next decade. 

 

Geoff Allix (34m 23s): 

Yes. It would be fantastic if people, by default, heard about lifestyle when they’re having that first conversation with a neurologist. 

 

Grazina Berry (34m 34s): 

Absolutely. 

 

Geoff Allix (34m 34s): 

It shouldn’t be something some people find out about. 

 

Grazina Berry (34m 38s): 

Google at the moment. 

 

Geoff Allix (34m 38s): 

Yes. Well, there’s a difference between the digital divide. I think most people who are following OMS are tech-savvy enough. They have access to computers, but if it was more widely available and it isn’t in some places. In some places, some neurologists hand out brochures for OMS, but that’s certainly not widespread. 

 

Grazina Berry (35m 3s): 

They do. It’s not wide, but I think you’re absolutely right to mention that, Geoff, because actually, some people will be handed the OMS book. Just reflecting a little bit on some of the achievements this year, we’ve actually presented to hospitals here to teams of MS nurses and neurologists. As a result of that, we’ve had this bumper order for free OMS books so they can then hand out to their patients at the point of diagnosis or in following appointments, which I thought was incredibly encouraging, certainly, as we prepared for 2022. 

 

Grazina Berry (35m 43s): 

What we also know through the survey that we’ve just talked about is that, I believe, in only 8% of cases, the OMS program will be discussed by the healthcare professionals and recommended, signposting people to us. Only 8%, which, okay, is a low number, but for me, that is a huge opportunity to really shift that number over the next year. 

 

Geoff Allix (36m 8s): 

I would say, when I was diagnosed in 2015, at the time, it wasn’t 8%, then I wouldn’t have thought. I think it’s gone up to 8% so it’s heading in the right direction at this. That’s a good thing. 

 

Grazina Berry (36m 27s): 

Definitely, thank you. 

 

Geoff Allix (36m 28s): 

Finally, what would you personally be most excited about for the year ahead? 

 

Grazina Berry (36m 34s): 

Lots of things to be excited about for 2022, alongside those 10th birthday parties that we’ll all be looking forward to. I’m really excited about getting out there and building deeper connections with the MS community. Of course, I have to caveat that pandemic allowing, restrictions allowing, but still absolutely build those deeper, meaningful connections with our community groups. I’m also really excited about leading our healthcare professionals’ engagement plans to fruition. Actually, it feels like, with the bigger and more diverse board of trustees that we now have, with a full team in place, we’ll be in such a great position to achieve our plans in 2022. 

 

Grazina Berry (37m 21s): 

More about this, people can hear when they tune into our upcoming webinars in January. 

 

Geoff Allix (37m 28s): 

I would absolutely encourage people, not just listening to podcasts, there are so many more resources, the webinar. There are huge amounts of content and resources on the Overcoming MS website and it’s well worth having a look around if you haven’t done so recently. It’s really expanded the content there. It’s huge now. With that, thank you very much for joining us for the start of 2022 and hopefully another successful 10 years. 

 

Grazina Berry (38m 1s): 

My absolute pleasure, Geoff. Thank you so much. Also, thank you for being one of our committed ambassadors, community members who keep supporting OMS as they adopt the OMS program. Thank you for the opportunity to share those plans, talk about the challenges, reflect on your achievements, and really look forward. I’m wishing everyone a healthy, enjoyable, and much brighter 2022. 

 

Geoff Allix (38m 31s): 

Thank you for listening to this episode of Living Well with MS. Please check out this episode’s show notes at www.overcomingms.org/podcast. You’ll find all sorts of useful links and bonus information there. Do you have questions about this episode or ideas about future ones? Email us at [email protected]. We’d love to hear from you. You can also subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast platform, so you never miss an episode. Living Well with MS is kindly supported by a grant from the Happy Charitable Trust. If you’d like to support the Overcoming MS Charity and help keep our podcast advertising-free, you can donate online at www.overcomingms.org/donate. To learn more about Overcoming MS and its array of free content and programs, including webinars, recipes, exercise guides, OMS Circles, our global network of community support groups, and more, please visit our website at www.overcomingms.org. While you are there, don’t forget to register for our monthly e-newsletter so you can be informed about the podcast and other news and updates from Overcoming MS. Thanks again for tuning in and see you next time.