S8E20 Stress reduction for MS: can tapping calm the nervous system?

Lauren Fonvielle, EFT Trainer (00:00)

Sometimes something that is bothering you in present day is linked to something that has happened in the past, but you’re not cognitively aware of it. There isn’t that like linear connection. But as you’re tapping, maybe you’ll have a memory that seems random, but it’s not because it’s connected to that.

And so once you can recognize that and hold space for that, there can be a really big shift, which then is really helping you get to the root of why you’re feeling the way that you’re feeling,

 

Overcoming MS (01:09)

Welcome to the latest edition of the Living Well With MS podcast. Joining me on this edition is Lauren Fonville. Lauren is a dedicated emotional freedom technique or EFT trainer specializing in helping individuals overcome emotional challenges such as stress, anxiety, trauma and negative thought patterns. With a passion for empowering others, Lauren teaches her clients how to use the transformative power of EFT to bring balance, clarity and healing into their lives.

Accredited and certified through EFT International, has extensive training and expertise in guiding individuals through the EFT process, a powerful technique that combines tapping on acupressure points with focused mental attention to promote emotional and physical healing. So welcome Lauren.

 

Lauren Fonvielle, EFT Trainer (01:52)

Thank you for having me.

 

Overcoming MS (01:54)

To start off with, could you introduce yourself, your work and how you became interested in mindfulness and stress reduction?

 

Lauren Fonvielle, EFT Trainer (02:02)

Yeah, so I am Lauren Vonville. I live in Delaware and I have been into EFT since 2018 when I discovered it on my on my own healing journey. So EFT, is this practice of applying light pressure by tapping on certain acupressure points and simultaneously acknowledging the emotions that you’re feeling. And this is a practice that can help with a lot of different things. But what brought me to it personally was my anxiety and I was having some panic attacks and I was looking for a way to holistically manage that and it started with me going to a yoga class and following my intuition and signing up to become a yoga teacher and go through yoga teacher training and that just led me to meeting a whole lot of people in the healing space. And eventually I was introduced to EFT and it really made a profound impact on my life and my anxiety and my ability to really acknowledge how I was feeling.

I just got hooked with it. I really fell in love with it. And so that led me to taking more classes and ultimately becoming an EFT trainer.

 

Overcoming MS (03:24)

So firstly, could you explain a bit about what EFT is? And I’ve heard of tapping, but is it the same as tapping?

 

Lauren Fonvielle, EFT Trainer (03:29)

Yes.

So EFT stands for emotional freedom technique. And you’ll also hear it referred to as tapping. Sometimes you’ll hear people refer to it as psychological acupressure because what we’re doing is applying pressure to certain points of the body. So just like how if you were to go to an acupuncturist and an acupuncturist would take tiny little needles and put them in at certain points of your body, we are applying acupressure to some of those same points. And then there’s the added component of speaking out loud and acknowledging how you’re feeling and if you’re completely new to this, it can definitely sound a little weird, a little out there, this idea of physically tapping on certain points of your body while you’re talking about how you’re feeling and that this practice is supposed to help reduce your anxiety, reduce physical pain, help you get to the root of limiting beliefs. I mean, it can help you with so many things. And I know that that can be like, that sounds really weird. That’s how I felt when I was first introduced to it. But there is a lot of science behind it and what is actually happening inside the brain and why it helps you to feel calmer and why it is used as a nervous system regulation tool. But that’s really what it does. mean, it’s all in the name, right? Emotional freedom technique. It is a tool that helps you find freedom from your emotions. And a lot of us can spend a lot of time kind of what I call stuffing, stuffing down the emotions, uncomfortable emotions like anger, frustration, sadness, stress. We don’t enjoy feeling them. So we push that down and we distract ourselves with something else so we don’t have to feel that. But I think we all know that in time, all that stuff that you’ve been pushing down is going to build up to a point where it’s going to come out in some way. And sometimes that comes out emotionally, you know, as like a some sort of emotional breakdown, meltdown. And sometimes it comes out physically as physical pain in the body. And so tapping is a way to help you acknowledge those emotions so that you don’t have to stuff them down and pretend like they’re not there and instead allow yourself to feel them so that they can move through you so that they don’t cause this pain whether it be physical or emotional in the body.

 

Overcoming MS (05:44)

So you mentioned about the science and overcoming MS is an evidence-based approach. I’ve heard there is now sort of definitely evidence behind using acupuncture, which it wasn’t so long ago that that was taken to be quite alternative, So what’s the science behind EFT?

 

Lauren Fonvielle, EFT Trainer (06:01)

Yeah. When you’re applying pressure to some of these points, what is happening is it’s sending a message to the amygdala in the brain. So I like to do this visual of this. So if we pretend that my fist is my brain and this front part of my fist where my knuckles are is the prefrontal cortex, so like the forehead part of the brain. This is where we make our good sound decisions. So information comes up the brainstem to the prefrontal cortex where we make those good sound decisions. Now when you are someone who is dealing with chronic anxiety or chronic pain. What happens is information’s coming up the brain stem, but we’re gonna pretend my thumb that’s inside my fist here is the amygdala. The amygdala is the part of the brain that controls fight, flight, or freeze. So this is an alarm system. And this alarm system starts going off. Now, this part of the brain is there to protect you in those situations where you need to fight back, you need to defend yourself, that sort of thing. But in this day and age, chronic stress has become so prevalent that this alarm system starts going off all the time. Now when this alarm system’s going off, information’s trying to get up to the prefrontal cortex, but you can’t access that part of the brain when this alarm is going off because it’s sending cortisol into the body. Cortisol is the stress hormone. So when you’re tapping on the points, what’s happening is a message is being sent to the amygdala and saying, hey, amygdala, this is not a life or death situation. You don’t need to be in fight or flight. You don’t need to be creating all of that cortisol. And so slowly that alarm starts to go off. So the prefrontal cortex can come back online so you can begin to make those sound decisions. Because when that’s offline and you’re trying to make those decisions, it’s like those situations where you may even say, I’m so stressed out, I can’t even think straight, right? And you literally can’t think straight because you can’t access that part of the brain. So tapping on the points helps to reduce that cortisol and so that now you can think straight, feel calmer, feel more grounded in the body. And so the studies that have been done, which were conducted by Dr. Peta Stapleton who is based over in Australia. She had a group of people doing tapping and they did swabs inside the cheek for the cortisol levels before tapping and then after tapping and it showed that tapping could reduce the amount of cortisol by up to 43%. So that’s a really large number and if I always say if you’re new to this and you’re dealing with a lot of stress and anxiety or you’re dealing with a lot of physical pain in the body, give it a try because it might be the thing that moves the needle. Even if you think it’s weird or out there or woo woo, if other things haven’t worked for you, it can’t hurt to give it a try and that’s how it feels.

 

Overcoming MS (08:42)

So if someone does want to trying tapping, how would you suggest they go about? Where do you start?

 

Lauren Fonvielle, EFT Trainer (08:50)

There’s tons of practitioners that do tapping videos on YouTube. So you could pretty much go on YouTube and put in. EFT or EFT tapping and sadness and back pain and frustration, whatever your issue is, and you will likely find a video that pops up. I have a YouTube channel where I’ve put out videos a lot. But I will say, and I think that’s a nice way for people to kind of be introduced to it, but the words that you use matter. And so if you are trying this out and you’re following along with a practitioner in a video and the words that the practitioner is saying really don’t resonate with how you’re feeling, it’s important that you pause that video and you really try to tune into what words would be best for you. So sometimes it’s more helpful to have a one-on-one session so someone can personally guide you through your specific issue. But if you’re just curious, yeah, go check it out on YouTube.

 

Overcoming MS (09:49)

And does it take long to see any results from this?

 

Lauren Fonvielle, EFT Trainer (09:52)

It depends on the issue. if you’ve been having a particular issue for a long time, it might take a little bit longer for you to kind of get to the root of it and feel some difference. But there are different factors that contribute to that and how long it takes. But generally, you will feel calmer. Pretty much right away. Yeah.

 

Overcoming MS (10:12)

Almost an instant thing. Yeah, wow.

 

Overcoming MS (10:16)

Do you want to live well with MS? Join the Overcoming MS community in the LiveWell Hub. It’s your place to get support, find connections, and feel motivated to make positive lifestyle choices. Download the LiveWell Hub in your app store today or visit hub.overcomingms.org to join. We hope to see you there.

 

Overcoming MS (10:39)

And so you mentioned the sort of short-term fight-or-flight response, yeah, that comes up a lot and we don’t have to run away from lions nowadays very often, it’s overused by our bodies. So are there longer physiological and emotional benefits as well?

 

Lauren Fonvielle, EFT Trainer (10:56)

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Because as human beings, we have all of these experiences in our lives, right? And these experiences have emotions attached to them. And sometimes something that is bothering you in present day is linked to something that has happened in the past, but you’re not cognitively aware of it. There isn’t that like linear connection. But as you’re tapping, maybe you’ll have a memory that seems random, but it’s not because it’s connected to that.

 

And so once you can recognize that and hold space for that, there can be a really big shift, which then is really helping you get to the root of why you’re feeling the way that you’re feeling, right? If you’re someone who, let’s just say, is really stressed out because you think it’s mostly because of this project that you’re working on at work.

But as you start tapping, yes, that’s prevalent right now, but you’re also having other thoughts come up of other times perhaps in your life where you felt physically the same way as you do right now, and it’s surprising to you. You don’t necessarily, weren’t really expecting that. So tapping can kind of bring things that are in the subconscious mind up to the conscious mind for us to hold space for and process it and move through it and release it for good.

 

Overcoming MS (12:08)

And is it something that lasts? And do you do this daily, weekly, or is it a one-off practice?

 

Lauren Fonvielle, EFT Trainer (12:13)

So this is a practice that can be used both proactively on a day-to-day basis as part of your daily self-care, but then it can also be used reactively in those moments where you’re really feeling triggered or stressed out or overwhelmed, and it can help you in the moment to calm yourself down. I would say the more that you practice tapping on a regular basis, the easier it’s going to be for you to implement it in those times where you’re feeling really stressed out and overwhelmed.

So a little bit of both.

 

Overcoming MS (12:40)

And is there, I mean a lot of these things, you said try it out and I think that’s some advice that we’ve had from medical community as well. Are there any potentially negative side effects of tapping that you should be aware of before you try it?

 

Lauren Fonvielle, EFT Trainer (12:53)

No, unless you are someone who has knowingly experienced big T trauma, I wouldn’t try tapping on that issue alone. I would I would highly recommend working with a skilled practitioner to guide you through that practice because you don’t want to get into a situation where you’re you know, triggering yourself and you know, you’re kind of spitting yourself up. So but other than other than that, there’s really no harm in tapping no negative side effects.

 

Overcoming MS (13:21)

And so I think this comes into one of the Overcoming MS pillars, is stress reduction. would you sort of think this is something that’s useful? mean, we often do mindfulness practices, but you also as a yoga teacher, sound healer, meditation teacher. So how does this all fit together? So in terms of that mindfulness pillar?

 

Lauren Fonvielle, EFT Trainer (13:42)

Yeah, so I think that combining modalities is a beautiful thing. And I think that particularly with both sound healing and with yoga and meditation, I like to incorporate tapping at the beginning of those practices. So for with meditation, for example, I’ll have clients come to me that say, I can’t meditate, I have too many thoughts, there’s just too much going on, I can’t do it, I can’t do it. And so I would suggest doing some tapping and just speaking out loud and acknowledging all of the thoughts that you’ve got swirling in your head. And by doing so, I find that it kind of doesn’t get rid of those thoughts, but it almost like sweeps them to the side so that when you try to meditate, you can sink in a little bit more easily. And I think it’s just overall a really nice grounding somatic practice to help you feel connected with the body, which is only going to help you with those additional modalities even more.

 

Overcoming MS (14:41)

And specifically on MS, are you aware if there’s specific MS symptoms that could be helped by EFT and tapping or other forms of mindfulness?

 

Lauren Fonvielle, EFT Trainer (14:51)

Tapping in general can help with physical pain in the body. So if you’re dealing with physical pain in the body, there is. I would say 99 % of the time, there’s always gonna be emotional contributors to the physical pain, right? So if you are someone that is experiencing some sort of physical sensation in the body that’s uncomfortable, tapping on the describing that and tapping on that and also recognizing some of the emotional contributors. if I’m dealing with, pain in my shoulder, Then you start thinking about, I’m not gonna be able to

 

play sports or do what I wanna do, right? It’s limiting and it’s stopping me from doing what I wanna do. And that makes you feel what? Angry, frustrated, sad. And so acknowledging those emotions, it helps to bring all of that to the surface. And then simply in acknowledging those emotions that are coming up, that in itself can help to reduce the physical sensation in the body. So I think in general that could help. then, know, anxiety and stress maybe about I would say for people that are dealing with physical conditions in general, there can be a lot of anxiety around, is this how it’s always going to be? Is this what I have to deal with for the rest of my life? Those types of thoughts. And again, not pretending like they’re not there, Because that’s a lot of the time what sometimes we do is just like, we don’t even want to acknowledge that. But bringing that to the light and holding space for that and the feelings associated with it can help you just feel more grounded and softer and lighter and physically better.

 

Overcoming MS (16:24)

And I would say actually people with MS would say that if they get stressed out their symptoms get worse, like instantly. More than I’ve ever learnt about whether I’m stressed or not. Now I know I’m stressed because my MS symptoms will tell me I’m stressed. So you mentioned a bit about the science earlier but do you have results of any research studies that have been done into EFT?

 

Lauren Fonvielle, EFT Trainer (16:45)

So Dr. Peta Stapleton is the big researcher in that area. was one study that was done on veterans who were diagnosed with PTSD and brought them together and did tapping with them individually for six weeks. I believe the sessions were once a week, six weeks, weeks, each session was about an hour. And at the end of that six weeks, 90 % of the veterans in that group had a reduction in their PTSD symptoms, which is which is pretty phenomenal.

But yeah, there’s so many different studies like that that are available out there. And even around like how the brain processes stress and anxiety, and there was one with, I don’t know if it was CAT scan or MRI, something where they’re scanning the brain and they can actually show when the body is stressed, the areas of the brain that light up, and they do it before tapping and then after tapping and how that shifts the

 

way that the scan picks up the anxiety and stress. So yeah, there’s lots of cool information out there if you like to geek out on the science.

 

Overcoming MS (17:51)

And if you had like personal examples of client breakthroughs.

 

Lauren Fonvielle, EFT Trainer (17:55)

yeah, absolutely. So I worked with a client that had fibromyalgia and she was dealing with a lot of physical pain in the knees. And at this particular point she was really on her couch for several days, really feeling frustrated and sad. And we started tapping on how it felt, the tightness in her knees, the pain. As we’re moving through this, one of the questions that I asked her was, do you think that there’s any sort of benefit for you being in this pain? And that can be a really sticky question for people, right?

And instead of her just saying no, of course not. She really thought about it and she thought, well, because I’m dealing with all this pain, my kids have been coming over to check on me a lot more often and I’m seeing them more. So that’s a benefit. But that the answer to that question kind of opened a doorway for us to explore. OK, well, is there do you have any sort of concern that if you’re feeling healthy that you’re not that you’re not going to see your kids as much. Right. And so as we started tapping on that and her answers to those questions, she just had this big aha moment. And she’s like, I don’t know, she’s tapping and she’s like, I don’t know what’s happening. My knees aren’t hurting. I can’t believe this. What’s happening because she was completely new to tapping. And so she had a big shift in in the pain level. And it was simply by acknowledging some of this other emotional stuff that that she had going on that was like kind of running in the background. And so that also kind of connects with your question of how long does it take to see results and it really depends on the person, it depends on the situation. And it also depends on their readiness. And when I say like readiness for healing, like her ability to kind of pause and not just say, no, there’s no reason there’s no benefit of me being in this pain, like instead, and really pausing and thinking about that and reflecting on that, like someone’s willingness to do that also is going to impact how quickly you see results. And so that was one that really stands out in my mind. There’s, yeah, there’s, have several, mean, there’s a client that had a fear of going in the elevator and it was really impacting her life. And after working together and having memories from her childhood pop up that she hadn’t thought about in probably 30 years and realizing that that was where her fear of being kind of cornered and trapped came from, she was able to get on elevators again. So yeah, some pretty amazing things can happen with this work.

 

Overcoming MS (20:29)

So thank you very much for introducing this to this. think it’s something, yeah, definitely, as you say, it’s worth trying and see what the results are. But is there anything else you’d like to add before we finish?

 

Lauren Fonvielle, EFT Trainer (20:36)

Yeah, I would just say that even if you are the tiny bit curious about this, even if you’re sitting there listening to this thinking, yeah, that sounds a little weird, if it is just like, huh, I don’t know, maybe, or if you’re someone who maybe have heard about this and this is the second or third time you’re hearing about that, I always like to think that we get these little nudges or little taps from the universe to explore things. So whether that tap is to explore, literally tap to explore tapping or if it’s to explore some other healing modality, I would just always encourage people to trust your intuition and follow your gut and try things out and see if whatever it is going to be the thing that moves the needle for you and helps you to feel better because I believe that we all deserve to feel good in our bodies and don’t stop chasing it. You deserve it.

 

Overcoming MS (21:34)

And with that, as always, check out the links in the show notes because there links to Lauren’s website and yeah, can find out more resources from there. But thank you very much for joining us, Lauren Farmville. Thank you.

 

Lauren Fonvielle, EFT Trainer (21:45)

Thank you. Thank you for having me.