S7E10 A quick guide to the Overcoming MS Program with Heather O’Neil

Heather O’Neil  00:00

It makes sense that these lifestyle choices, they’re all about healthy living. So it doesn’t matter if you have MS or you don’t have MS, or you’re prone to heart disease. I mean, you know eating a low fat, you know Whole Foods, a low saturated fat, Whole Foods, plant based diet, is going to help with health regardless.

 

Speaker 1  00:21

Welcome to Living Well with MS. This show comes to you from Overcoming MS, the world’s leading multiple sclerosis healthy lifestyle charity which helps people live a full and healthy life through the Overcoming MS program We interview a range of experts and people with multiple sclerosis, please remember all opinions expressed are their own. Help others discover Living Well with MS. If you enjoy the show, please rate and review us wherever you listen to podcasts. And now let’s meet our guest.

 

Geoff Allix  00:58

Welcome to the latest edition of Living Well with MS. Joining me today is Heather O’Neil. Heather is a clinical social worker and has been working with individuals and couples in private practice and other organizations for the past 27 years. She special specializes in treating trauma, coping with chronic illness and anxiety disorders. She was diagnosed with MS in 2020 and found the Overcoming MS program very shortly into her diagnosis. It’s given her a tremendous amount of agency over her own health and has allowed her to manage her anxiety related to this illness. Overall, Heather feels healthier and more connected to her body. Heather lives in Denver, Colorado, in the US, and enjoys spending time with family and friends. She loves skiing, hiking and traveling, and when not adventuring she can be found curled up with a good book. So welcome Heather.

 

Heather O’Neil  01:46

Thanks. It’s good to be here.

 

Geoff Allix  01:48

So to start off with, could you introduce yourself and tell us about your MS journey?

 

Heather O’Neil  01:54

Sure. I’m a clinical social worker, so I’m in private practice. I was diagnosed in 2020 so it was right at the beginning of the pandemic. And I have, I had two teenage kids at home at the time, and we had COVID in our house. And so I really thought I was having COVID Because I was having numbness in my toes, and we were hearing all about, like, COVID toe. And so I was really thinking, oh, like, this is something going on with that. So finally got a hold of a doctor, and they ended up getting me in to be seen. So I had numbness in my toes, and then it was starting to move up my feet and into my legs. And so I got to see a doctor in person, which was kind of a gift during the pandemic. That was like a lot of messing around to get there. And what I now know they did a neurological exam at the time. I just didn’t really understand what was going on. And so at the end of that exam, the doctor was like, you know, in normal times, if we were not in COVID, I’d send you to get an MRI, but it’s gonna take forever to get an MRI. So she’s like, would you be willing to go to the emergency room? And I’m like, sure, in the middle of COVID, I’d love to go to so I spent like, 10 hours at the emergency room in the heart of COVID. Nobody could be there with me, but finally got an MRI, and I was diagnosed pretty quickly, which I know doesn’t happen for a lot of people, but I probably have had MS for a long time, and because I had old lesions, and I had several new lesions that showed up, so my diagnosis was pretty clear. And so from there got, you know, got a neurologist, and all of the things, and that’s kind of the beginning of my journey. So it was, you know, kind of my journey of getting diagnosed was also wrapped up in the pandemic, which is kind of an interesting, unique little quality.

 

Geoff Allix  03:41

And how did you we mentioned you started Overcoming MS quite quickly. So how did you come across Overcoming MS and and also, I believe you’ve become a facilitator. So why did you decide to do that as well? Yeah, I mean, I found Overcoming MS because so I’m a person that I like to know a lot of information, and I like to research things, and we had a lot of time on our hands, so my practice was shifted to online. My kids are at home. We can’t go anywhere you know, and I have this diagnosis from like, Googling everything, right? And so found Overcoming MS, pretty quickly. From online search read Dr Jelinek’s book, I actually also found some stuff on Terry Whals. So I think one of the pieces in the US is Overcoming MS is not as well known. It’s not something that pops up as easily. We’ve got, you know, some Swank stuff and and Terry Whals stuff. And so when I found Dr Jelinek’s book, and it just resonated with me, just on a level of like, so, yeah, and so then I kind of dove in from there. Is there another question there.

 

Heather O’Neil  04:56

So you’ve become a facilitator as well.

 

Geoff Allix  04:59

That wos sort of a weird, come about, I was a part of a global circle, because we didn’t really have a circle that was really established in the US, and was doing was, you know, just to kind of connect with other people. So I was doing that global circle, and somehow I had had a conversation with this guy, Sean, who was part of that circle, and he’s like, wait you so, because I’m a clinical social worker here, and I was a adjunct faculty for many years at the University of Denver, and have done facilitating, they were like, you know, would you be willing to do this? And I think for me, one of the things that I wanted to do that for is just to have more presence in the United States, just because, again, it was one of those things that I was learning about, and I was a part of this global circle. But it wasn’t really like I was finding a lot of things here in the US around that. So for me, it was like, oh, this might be a good opportunity for me to share that information with people.

 

Heather O’Neil  06:03

And so if you could give us some information, using your expertise as a facilitator. So the first pillar, and the one that people know, Overcoming MS, maybe the most visible pillar, is the diet one. So everyone notices that we eat differently, and so what are the Overcoming MS recommendations for diet?

 

Geoff Allix  06:27

Sure. I mean, the diet is really a plant based whole foods diet rich in omega threes, so it excludes dairy, meat, and it really minimizes saturated fat, so you’re eating fruits, veggies, whole grains, beans, fish, if you want to, nuts, olive oil, flax seed oil, plant based, dairy and egg white. That’s kind of the gist of it.

 

Heather O’Neil  06:55

 Any seafood at all, or specific fish, prawns, shrimps, things like that.

 

Geoff Allix  07:01

I think all seafood is there. It’s obviously, if you can, like, salmon, sardines, you know, things that are higher in Yeah. So, like, there’s certain seafood that is better, but all seafood is kind of

 

Heather O’Neil  07:18

The Omega threes of the Omega three, yeah, yeah. And so if someone’s coming to this from new how, how can they get started with Overcoming MS diet? So if they’re not currently plant based, and they’re not currently eating a whole food diet, they’re going to the mall, the supermarket and buying the stuff that we produce nowadays called food. So how would you recommend people get started?

 

Geoff Allix  07:47

I think there’s, there’s kind of like two avenues that I often hear. So one is kind of just, you know, to dive in, to do it all right at one time. And so for me, that’s what I’m motivated more that way. So when I started on this, I just kind of was like, I’m not going to do I just want to do all of it, right? So I’m going to do no dairy, and other people kind of do it step by step. So you might start off by like, okay, I’m going to start with not doing dairy, and kind of go with that for a while and and then I’m going to start with, you know, then I’m going to let go of meat, and you can do it kind of step by step. One of the other things I would say in all of it that’s helpful for me anyways, was also just thinking about, like, adding more fruits and vegetables. Because, you know, when I think about trying to get six to nine, you know, and this is just in my six to nine fruits and vegetables, then you kind of have to change your eating pattern anyways, because you have to. You can’t, you know, you can’t start that at dinner. You have to start that at breakfast.

 

Heather O’Neil  08:45

And so to go through the pillars, the next pillar is vitamin D and sunlight itself. So what are recommendations for getting vitamin D?

 

Geoff Allix  08:58

Yeah, the recommendations for getting vitamin D, which also has shifted a little bit recently, based on new evidence, right, is supplementing 4000 to 10,000 units of vitamin D3, per day. And it really depends on where you live and how much sunshine you get, which influences how much you know, supplementation, and then this other idea of getting about 15 minutes of sunlight, three to five days per week, like being out in the sun.

 

Heather O’Neil  09:29

So that’s before you slap on the sunscreen.

 

Geoff Allix  09:35

So trying to Yeah, before you slap on the sunscreen, getting, you know, a solid amount of so that you can take in that vitamin D.

 

Heather O’Neil  09:43

Because just a few minutes is not going to cut. You don’t want to burn, do you, but you’re a few minutes. And then, because that old advice, I think that our parents will have given us of like, sunscreen, get anywhere near the front door and yeah, so now it should maybe have 10-15, minutes. So then do you sunscreen. Then you won’t actually get burnt, right? And is it possible to find out your vitamin D levels? Because you mentioned sort of, it depends where you are, depends guessing on your skin color. So how do you find out what your vitamin D levels are, and what’s the recommendations?

 

Geoff Allix  10:18

Sure, I mean, so typically, and I know they did this for me, I mean, I got a vitamin D level when I got all my blood work initially with my diagnosis. And so that may or may not happen, but you can also ask for that to get a vitamin D level, so it’s a blood sample, and it’ll give you your level so that you have kind of a baseline. And that’s actually really helpful, because then you know, kind of how to work with supplementation. Like for me, I actually need a lot of I need a higher level of a supplement, because my vitamin D just was just low, like it did not go up very quickly. And so, you know, the the general recommendation is 100 to 150 nmol. So when you get that number, you know, you’ll get the blood test, you’ll be able to know whether that in the states that’s 40 to 60 NG. So it’s, you know, it’s different, but you want to be, you know, if you’re lower than that, that’s really what you’re shooting for, to be somewhere in that range. And so once you know that information, then you can work with how to supplement that and how to get outside, and, you know, nature with sunshine, so that you can get that level too.

 

Heather O’Neil  11:32

So to go through the pillars again. So the next pillar is exercise. And that’s that’s something where it can obviously be harder depending on your physical capability. So how much exercise do you need, and what type does does Overcoming MS recommend? Sure. Um, so you know, people with MS really need the same as people without Ms. I think the recommendation is really 150 minutes of moderate exercise a week. And so for people with MS, we need some cardio, we need aerobic fitness. We need resistance training a little bit. And that resistance training might be weight lifting, but it also could be like rock climbing or it could be rowing. So there’s different ways you can get resistance training in. And then we also need some stretching, um. And so we’re trying to work up to and so if you are not doing any exercise, right, you start slow and you build up, because you don’t want to hurt yourself in the process. But eventually you’re working to get to 30 minutes, five days a week, kind of that’s this optimal thing you’re trying to work up to. And so if people get I mean, I’ll use myself as an example. So I went from running  like literally run a marathon, I was rock climbing, I was surfing, I was snowboarding, and then now my I can’t run my balance isn’t very good, and there’s things I can’t do that I can’t surf because I can’t pop up, you know, just something I can’t the action I can’t do. So then your motivation, motivation goes because a lot of the sort of drive to do those things. So what would you say your tips off of staying motivated and to keep up that exercise routine?

 

Geoff Allix  13:23

One of the things I would say about motivation is just finding your why, right. So maybe your why is, like, okay, I can’t surf anymore, but I want to be able to do this right. What’s that next thing that you know? So figuring out the why doing, shifting, right, pivoting. So it might be okay, like, I can’t do that anymore, but what can I do? So instead of thinking like, oh, I can’t do that anymore, so I’m going to do nothing, it’s shifting to like, Okay, what is something I could do? And maybe looking also getting creative, of like, maybe there’s something like, oh, I’ve always wanted to learn about that, and maybe this is a time to do that. Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, consistency of some sort is really important with exercise and MS, right, being consistent with something, and maybe it’s not what you used to do, but it’s this new normal, and can I be consistent with that?

 

Heather O’Neil  14:16

And one of the things I would say that that’s a lot of people have trouble with is the next pillar, which is mindfulness. So mindfulness and stress management? What are the recommendations for that?

 

Geoff Allix  14:27

Yeah, so the recommendation is really to do 30 minutes of stress management per day, and that could be meditation or mindfulness practices. I think about sometimes, like just being in nature. You know, we know there’s such a healing quality of like being in nature and quiet space, listening to music. So there’s different ways, you know, we can, can do that.

 

Heather O’Neil  14:52

So it’s not, you don’t have to do a specific like Zen Buddhist meditation every day. It’s quite open to do different stress reduction techniques. Yeah, I think getting you know, like meditation is is great, and it’s wonderful and but there are different kinds of meditation, right? Being in nature and being quiet can also be a meditation like, you know. So, yeah, I think it’s like getting out of this idea that it has to be one thing, and we can also sprinkle it in, right? We can do so instead of thinking, I have to sit down and I do 30 minutes of meditation, it might be like, I do, you know, 10 minutes and 10 minutes and 10 minutes or something like that. And are there any tips you have for nervous system regulation and managing stress?

 

Geoff Allix  15:38

Yeah. I mean, there’s a, yeah, there’s a ton of them, you know, I would encourage, you know, people to, again, do small little things. There’s a lot of, like, body centered things to, you know, to work with that. You know, just controlling your nervous system, like hand on heart is a lovely one. That kind of calms your nervous system a little bit. We kind of do it naturally when we’re stressed out, but it’s a good one. And you know, the goal is really working to respond to stress instead of react to it. So, and I would be remiss, because I’m a therapist, to not say like, you know, getting, having counseling or doing therapy can also be another way. I know, initially, with this diagnosis, there’s so much anxiety about the what ifs right. You know, we hear about this neurodegenerative it’s this future thing. And so I think getting some help around, how do I, how am I going to manage that anxiety, so that I can do some mindfulness and meditation? Because if our brain is really in that anxious, overwhelmed place, we might need to get some support around that to get to a place where we can do kind of the mindfulness and meditation.

 

Heather O’Neil  16:48

There’s also a pillar on medication. Now, I think a lot of people assume that any program like Overcoming MS is anti any medication, because I know some some programs are, but you know what is the Overcoming MS stance on on a disease modifying therapy?

 

Geoff Allix  17:09

Yeah, it’s really a both and approach, right? Medication is absolutely a part of this program. If you and your health care provider believe it’s necessary and helpful, there isn’t any shame in using medication along with a healthy lifestyle. I do both, I take I’m on medication and I do the program.

 

Heather O’Neil  17:30

And if people are not comfortable with medication, then equally, it doesn’t mean you haven’t. You know, it doesn’t count. You can.

 

Geoff Allix  17:40

If that’s not your choice, and that’s not something that the doctor is recommending. You know the you know this is your body, right?

 

Heather O’Neil  17:48

And so, so the next one going away from your you as an individual, your family health. So it’s now accepted that there is a link. There is, they don’t know exactly what it is, but there’s a genetic link with MS. So what’s the benefits of family members who don’t have MS following the program? Would it be suggested that they also follow along? Yeah. I mean, so yes, there, we’ve got this genetic element, right? It makes sense that these lifestyle choices, they’re all about healthy living. So it doesn’t matter if you have MS or you don’t have MS, or you’re prone to heart disease. I mean, you know, eating a low fat, you know, Whole Foods, a low saturated fat, Whole Foods, plant based diet, is going to help with health, regardless. So I think when you think about bringing that into your family, it just makes sense that it’s just a healthier lifestyle, and you know, it lends itself to lots of different health changes, not just with MS, I know for me and my household. I mean, I had two teenage kids when I started Overcoming MS, and my husband and so kids, especially teenage kids, it’s harder to, you know, and that’s, you know, they are now in college and out of this household. But my husband and I, you know, really, his health has changed because he just, you know, we’re eating the same thing. And so it shifted, even though he doesn’t have, MS, So the worst case scenario is, if it doesn’t affect your MS at all, you’re going to get healthier. Yeah,

 

Geoff Allix  19:28

Absolutely, yeah. There’s not a downside to like eating, eating this way, and having stress management and exercising. These are all the things that every single doctor would tell you to do, regardless of if you have MS or not.

 

Heather O’Neil  19:41

And so the final pillar is, change your life for life. So firstly, what does this mean in the in terms of lifestyle management? What is, what is that pillar? Yeah. I mean, it really means, I think this is a lifestyle change. It’s not like, Oh, I do this for a time. I try. Change this for a period of time, and then things get better. It’s really about, this is, I’m changing my life, right? This is, this is my new normal, right? So that’s kind of Yeah. So if people say to you, oh, how long do you need to be on a effectively vegan diet?

 

Geoff Allix  20:17

Yeah. I mean, I would say that this is it, yeah. I would also take it. I mean, I know, and you also probably know this. I mean, I’m five years in now. I, you know, in the beginning, I think I was, it was harder, right? I had a I was, like, kind of counting saturated fat. And, you know, even though Dr Jelinek says, like, you know, you don’t need to do that, I think all of us kind of struggle with that a little bit. And now I can tell you that it’s just a lifestyle choice. These are just things I do, and I have less anxiety around it, and I have a life anxiety around like, did I do that right? Did I do that wrong? It just is part of the, you know, who I’ve become.

 

Speaker 2  20:53

So lastly, do you have any final tips for someone who’s newly diagnosed with MS, or maybe has MS is new to the Overcoming MS program?

 

Heather O’Neil  21:05

I mean, I would say, welcome. This is such a great community of people who are offering positivity and hopefulness. Seek out community in some you know, find your tribe. So you know that again, was the Overcoming MS circle, for me, was really helpful to be around other people. But finding, you know, doing a Pathways Program, or the retreat, or finding different ways where you can get more information about the program was really helpful. And Overcoming MS actually offers so many, you know, options that are at no cost to people to like, let’s hear what the you know, program is. And I think over time, you know, getting hearing those things and implementing them, really paying attention to how your body feels right, like when you tune in, you start to notice shifts and changes. And that’s also going to be a motivator to keep going. I mean, I know, for me, you know, when I tune in, I’m like, oh, this really has changed, or I do feel more energy or, you know, so again, that’s it just kind of reinforces like, Yeah, I’m on the right track,

 

Geoff Allix  22:13

okay, and with that, thank you very much for joining us. Heather O’Neil.

 

Heather O’Neil  22:17

 Yeah, thank you.

 

22:21

Thank you for listening to this episode of Living Well with MS. Please check out this episode’s show notes at overcoming ms.org/podcast you’ll find useful links and bonus information there. Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an episode. And please rate and view the show to help others find us. This show is made possible by the Overcoming MS community. Our theme music is by Claire and Nev Dean. Our host is Geoff Allix. Our videos are edited by Lorna Greenwood and I’m the producer, Regina Beach. Have questions or ideas to share, email us at podcast, at overcoming ms.org we’d love to hear from you. The Living Well with MS podcast is for private, non commercial use, and exists to educate and inspire our community of listeners. We do not offer medical advice. For medical advice, please contact your doctor or other licensed healthcare professional.