S2E20 Coffee Break with host Geoff Allix

Geoff Allix  00:02 

Welcome to Living well with MS Coffee Break. I’m your host, Geoff Allix, we decided to do something a little different in expanding the range of content we produce here at Living Well with MS. Since our community forms the beating heart of Overcoming MS, we are commencing this special series called Coffee Break, which features short interviews with members of the OMS community, talking about their personal journeys, adopting and staying on the OMS seven step recovery programme, the challenges they encountered, and how they overcame them, and their tips and tricks for sticking to the path that leads to better health. We hope you enjoy and learn from these brief chats between our regular episodes. And as always, your comments and suggestions are welcome by emailing [email protected]. That’s [email protected]. And don’t forget, if you enjoy these and other Living W‍ell with MS podcast episodes, please leave a review on Apple podcasts or your favorite podcast listening platform.  Welcome to Living well with MS Coffee Break. This week, it’s going to be a little bit different from normal. There’s actually two of us behind this podcast. There’s myself the host, and also Alex, who is the producer of the LivingWell with MS podcast. And this week, to change things up a little bit. We’re going to turn the tables and Alex is actually going to be interviewing me. So welcome, Alex. 

  

Alex Twersky  01:30 

Thanks so much, Geoff. I’m really, really happy to be here. For those of you who don’t know me, I’ve been with Overcoming MS working with the charity for over six years. My name is Alex Twersky and in contrast to Geoff, I’m based on the other side of the pond, in the United States, in New York City. And I’m really happy for the opportunity to try out this comfy hosting chair for a few minutes. Although Geoff, I promise I won’t get too comfortable in it. So Geoff, just like the other wonderful episodes in the coffee break series, this being our eighth one, which we’re super excited about. We’ve made it to lucky number eight. And we’re really happy to have you here as our guest because, you’ve been doing such an amazing job as the host of the Living Well with MS podcasts since its launch. And now we’re well into our second season. And a lot of that success is thanks to your stewardship. So I wanted to say thank you first and foremost, before diving into my grilling of you as a subject. And on that subject I just wanted to ask you, for those of us who are OMSers in the audience who may not know as much about you personally, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and your family, your life, where you live, and basically anything you’d like to share with us. That will give our audience a little bit more, more of a fuller picture of the man in the hosting chair. 

 
 

Geoff Allix  03:03 

Yeah, sure. So I live near the coast of North Devon in England. With a wife and two teenage children and a dog, I work from here actually, I normally work from home. Currently, I know most people are working from home, but I work from home anyway. And I work in technology, I create technical content. Mostly, it’s online, it could be training courses, it could be videos. And that’s how I came about this really, because I do a lot of audio and video work as that part of my job. 

 
 

Alex Twersky  03:43 

So it’s no wonder that you’re so comfortable with the technical components of hosting the podcast, given your work. And I’m not going to ask you too many personal details about your family, but I’m going to ask you what your dog’s name is. 

 
 

Geoff Allix  03:59 

Yeah, my dog’s name is Mabel. Yeah, she’s normally here next to me. Mabel is actually in the background of almost every recording. But she’s very good. She’s very used to me talking. Initially, I think she thought I was going insane, because when she was younger, she’d stare at me whenever I was on an audio call because there was no one else there and I was just talking to myself. But she’s gotten used to my insanity and is happy for me just to talk to myself and normally sits there quietly. 

 
 

Alex Twersky  04:30 

That’s fantastic. Well, you have a trusted companion by your side while you record these episodes. That’s great. Well speaking about, you know, OMS in general and your personal experience with it and MS. I just wondered if you could share with our audience your own personal MS story. When you were diagnosed with MS and how long you’ve been following the OMS seven step recovery programme. 

 
 

Geoff Allix  04:54 

The full story goes back a long way because my father had MS. So when I was about eight or nine years old. My father was diagnosed with MS. It didn’t seem to me to make a huge difference to him, at the time, I don’t think I realized quite how much it affected him. And certainly growing up, I was a little bit surprised because it wasn’t the typical MS that I think still most people are led to believe. He wasn’t in a wheelchair. And that was certainly, when I was growing up, why the thing that popped into my head, when someone said MS, was someone in a wheelchair and he wasn’t in a wheelchair. But sadly, he passed away at the age of 54. Which means, well you don’t die from MS, but the doctors have sort of said yes, but if he didn’t have MS, he probably would have lived a lot longer. And there were a lot of complications. And so I was kind of acutely aware of it, and then I had random symptoms for quite a number of years. Really going back quite a long way, let’s say 21 or 22 years ago, I lost the feeling in all of my fingertips, which was unexplained by the doctors. That’s not normal. It’s actually separate nerves that go to your fingertips and but it went away. And so when it went away, the specialist said, “Oh, well that’s okay then” and then discharged me. And then I was still very active. After that, I went travelling around the world, ran a marathon, was a keen rock climber, I was scuba diving, surfing, mountain biking, you name it, all those sort of things. And then about seven years ago I started to get some more serious symptoms, which ultimately, I think there’s a few things actually, I had one episode that I really recall, we were queuing up for Disney World in Florida. And I just fell to the floor, from standing up in a queue to completely laid out on the floor instantaneously, and they thought it was probably a back problem. And again, couldn’t find anything wrong didn’t recur. So they weren’t too worried. But then I developed double vision. And the opticians couldn’t identify anything wrong with my eyes, and said, well opticians only look on the inside of your eyeball, and there’s nothing wrong there. And then that’s really what led me down the path to being diagnosed. Now, you asked me about OMS. And actually, bizarrely, I was actually doing OMS slightly earlier than I was diagnosed with MS. Because organisational things went wrong with the diagnosis. And I ended up with appointments with my neurologist, which were the week before the results of the tests. And so he couldn’t tell me anything. And then it got delayed, and various back and forth. It was I think, ultimately a five month diagnosis, which isn’t typical and was not intended. But because I had this period of time. At the start of that I was told from an MRI scan that I almost certainly had MS. So I thought I had it. And I had no help, no resources, because I didn’t officially have MS. So then you have Dr. Google. There, was a huge amount of stuff. I mean, I imagine that most people who have had a diagnosis will Google information. And there’s a lot of people trying to sell you a lot of things. And I was very skeptical about that. But my wife actually came across Overcoming MS and said, look, these people are not trying to sell you something, they’re gonna send you their book for free. And they don’t want any money. And I was very convinced by that, to the extent that I started it just before getting the book, from the information online. And then, I have a bit of a scientific background and I just loved the whole research basis of it, and basically just read the book cover to cover and went literally day one adopted the diet 100% and didn’t look back really. That’s an amazing journey Geoff. So how long have you actually been on the programme at this point? Oh, so this is five years, basically yeah, five years ago, pretty much exactly five years ago. Well, with five years of experience behind you, which is a significant chunk of time, can you identify what the most impactful or positive thing about the programme has been for you.  What’s made the most difference for you in your day to day life? It has a slightly bizarre answer, I think it’s the thing that you’re not doing properly. So, the diet, although from the outside, might seem the hardest thing to do, because it’s quite a fundamental change to your lifestyle potentially. It’s very simple to do it correctly, you know what you should or shouldn’t eat. And then you do that. The things which are not, fundamental if you like, well, you have to schedule them in are the exercise and the mindfulness, those are actually harder. And I think most people say that the mindfulness is a difficult thing. Because you have to take half an hour out of your day to do it. Now you have to take time out of your day to eat your food. So you’re doing that anyway. So that’s not actually a change in your day to day schedule. And so it’s really is the thing that I’m not doing properly, the thing that makes the most difference. It was mindfulness. I think like most people, I found that harder. But I’ve gotten to a good schedule with mindfulness, and then, particularly with Coronavirus, it was difficult to do the exercise routine that I had in place. So that’s made a big difference, right, getting back into a good exercise routine. So I think it really is quite a holistic approach. And, the parts of the program are all important. And I think if you miss one of those things, and that’s the thing to look at. 

 
 

Alex Twersky  11:37 

That’s really fascinating, Geoff. So, it sounds like it’s really forced you to, to both confront some challenges, but also to realise that, you know, sometimes the thing you think will be hardest, is not that hard, and other things might actually pose more of an obstacle. But speaking of that, so it sounds like you may have already answered my next question. But just in case there’s more to the story, I’ll ask what you think your greatest challenge has been in adopting the OMS programme? And what did you do? Are there any tips or tricks you can offer to, to overcoming that challenge that you faced? 

 
 

Geoff Allix  12:24 

So initially, it was definitely mindfulness. And there is, I am not 100% sure, it might have been Jon Kabat-Zinn or someone who said, “If you can’t find half an hour a day for mindfulness, you should find an hour a day for mindfulness”. And there’s a lot of truth in that, you really, I think everyone, this is not just an MS thing, everyone needs to find time in their life to do a form of meditation. And it’s so beneficial for your general mindset. So that was a hard thing. And then with Coronavirus, I mean, I had quite a good routine going to the local gym, tho those got shut down because of COVID-19. And then, and also I was shielding. So it was difficult to go out and do much exercise. And that certainly got a lot worse in the last six months. But both of those, I would say have helped with online communities. So our Circle has a group, so we have a WhatsApp group. But we have a separate Whatsapp group for meditation. So people that want to, it’s actually three different circles together, locally. And people that want to do daily meditation, we all just check in and say, we’re going to do this set of meditations. And then we just say what we thought of the meditation each day. And it’s not much, it’s just the thing that you think, oh, well, I really should do it. Because we all comment on it and it just keeps us doing it. Because there’s that gentle reminder, someone else will comment in WhatsApp, you think oh yeah, I haven’t done my meditation. And it gets us doing it. And similarly with exercise, I’m doing online exercise routines and I have a group with that as well. Again, we’re just checking in with each other, to say how we found the exercise that day and it’s just that little prompt, it has really helped me to make sure I keep those routine elements going and the rest of it is fairly straightforward. I take my vitamin D every day. I follow the diet. So those are relatively straightforward. I mean, I do miss cheese, to be honest, but while I say that, I did miss cheese, I don’t actually now miss cheese and the idea of cheese is not appealing to me, but I did initially, but once I’ve adapted our diet and lifestyle. It’s just getting that schedule. And I think that’s what’s really helped, is being in a group that support you. 

 
 

Alex Twersky  15:07 

Well, you alluded to something that I just wanted to ask, you know, a tangential question about, about adapting to the OMS diet. So you mentioned that you miss cheese, or you did at some point miss cheese, and then you sort of worked  it out, and you don’t really miss it too much anymore. How do you feel about the idea of substituting foods that are not compliant with the OMS programmes such as dairy cheese, for example, with non dairy alternatives? Do you think that creates an ongoing reliance on past dietary habits? Or would you recommend instead just saying, look, I can’t eat cheese, and I’m not going to bother eating non dairy cheese because it’s just too reminiscent of the food that’s not healthy for me to eat. So I’m just going to find other things that are appropriate. And are you know, well recommended by the programme as being really healthy and good for your health with MS. And I’ll just focus on those instead of trying to find substitutes. 

 
 

Geoff Allix  16:15 

I think it’s a mixture there, because a lot of a typical Western diet has had dairy in it. So for example, coffee, I just find Nespresso coffee is a bit too strong for me. I like a latte, for example. And that’s been built up over many years to be done with dairy, no actually,  because there’s so many different non dairy milks around. An oat milk latte is actually really nice. So I’ve found a non dairy substitute that works really well. With some other things, there’s meals for example, lasagna, is a meal that is different to spaghetti bolognese, I know it’s 75% the same but that cheese sauce does add something to it. So you can find alternatives to that. You can use yeast flakes, that you can add to a white sauce, that will give a cheesy tang to it. And you can make a really nice lasagna, a vegetarian lasagna with a non dairy cheese sauce. And that works. But then other things, I think actually are pretty good without the dairy. So I like to have pizza without cheese. And which, actually, if you go to Italy, they’re fine with that. There’s lots of pizzas that don’t have cheese, the place it’s hardest, is the United States, where they’re convinced that you must have cheese, and will try to make you have non dairy cheese. Which having tasted it once was a bit like cardboard. It looks quite like cheese, but didn’t taste like cheese. But actually, I love a pizza with no cheese, it really works. So some things you just don’t need dairy, and just eating cheese on its own, there are some non dairy alternatives which are quite good. But I’ve just started to eat different things. But then when it’s a meal, which really inherently has a cheese sauce, for example, then finding an alternative works pretty well. 

 
 

Alex Twersky  18:36 

So, I guess it’s really about enjoying the range of new foods that you can discover, that you may not have been exposed to before you started following the OMS diet, as opposed to just keeping a tether to the past. And to cling to old dietary habits, even if they’re modified in some form. It’s maybe a balance of the two. I guess it’s different for everyone. But I will certainly agree with you that in the US, it’s very difficult to avoid cheese and dairy. It’s such a big staple here in so many foods. But the US also has an amazingly rich community of people who are vegetarian, vegan and follow all sorts of interesting and healthy diets that are OMS compliant.  

 
 Geoff Allix  19:29 

Yeah, so I would say that it’s actually the easiest country to go to as a traveler. No one looks at you twice when you’ve got dietary requirements. And if you have the OMS diet cards from the website, then they will happily take that to a chef and they will happily adapt. I’ve never had a problem in the States with food. It’s very, very straightforward. And in fact, I would say that about most countries where the States particularly is the easiest. The only one that’s really difficult is France, they really do like their dairy and meat. And it is quite hard. But other than that, I’d say everywhere that you can, you can generally find places and people do say this. So it was another coffee break guest we had and she was saying that about pizza, she eats a lot of pizza. And it’s true when you go traveling pizza is a pretty straight, standard go to meal. Because you can have pizza without cheese and a vegetarian pizza without cheese is almost certainly OMS compliant. But one thing I would say about the diet, is actually eating freshly cooked whole food is a nice thing to do. Regardless of dietary requirements, if you eat freshly prepared, freshly cooked food, then it’s nicer. We’ve got to a stage in the western culture where we typically buy something at a supermarket and heat it in a microwave and then eat it. That is not typically that nice compared to freshly cooked foods. So actually, I think my diet is tastier than it was before. Because it’s less heavily processed than it was before. 

 
 

Alex Twersky  21:24 

That’s great, Geoff, well, more power to you. And I think a lot of our listeners can take encouragement from the journey that you’ve followed, in working in some of the OMS recommendations into your daily life. But you alluded to something earlier, I just wanted to ask you about, about your circle where you live in North Devon, as I understand it, you’re also the ambassador of that circle in North Devon, and in the UK. And, and I wonder if you could tell us a little bit about what that’s like, and how that’s also helped inform your journey both as a member of that circle, but also as the ambassador. 

 
 

Geoff Allix  22:05 

So where I live is quite a rural area. So, it’s a very large area that the circle covers with few people. So actually, we were meeting up quite infrequently at a local cafe that had OMS compliant food and drink. It was quite nice to actually meet some other people following the programme. I mean, I’ve been on a five day retreat, and that was fantastic, to meet so many people who are following it, but actually just day to day, you know, local people, and we were in contact with each other. So we could give each other guidance, advice, helping hand. But what’s made a huge difference has been with the COVID 19 pandemic, because what’s happened with us is three, there’s three similar circles, Cornwall, North Devon, South Devon, which are all areas which are largely rural, very spread out members of our circles. But with those because we’ve grouped together, we have a very vibrant Whatsapp group. So we’re not physically meeting, but we’ll have Zoom meetings where we chat to each other, and lots and lots of interaction on chat. So that’s been really, really positive. So lots of advice, questions going backwards and forwards, I mentioned helping each other with things like meditation. So that’s been really, really beneficial for having the circle. So it’s, it’s partly giving back for me. And that’s why I starte hosting the podcast is a feeling of I wanted to give back, because I felt that OMS given me so much, but actually getting a lot from it as well. So I’m getting a lot of support and advice from the members of the circle. 

 
 

Alex Twersky  24:03 

That’s wonderful, Geoff, and I’m sure that they appreciate your stewardship, and in general, I think that you’re speaking about something that’s quite important to the OMS programme, which is the idea of community and certainly circles is a wonderful way for people to find that in their local area. So we as OMS would certainly encourage anyone who’s interested in circles to check it out on our website and see if there’s a circle in your area or maybe even consider starting one. So, so great for you. Great job on your part for being involved in that aspect as well. But I think one of the key things, before we, before this episode comes to a close is that everybody wants to know about, is your role as the host of the Living Well with MS podcast. So just wondering, what’s it like from your perspective to be the host of this podcast and to have been with it from the start and to engage with so many diverse members of both the OMS community, but also the broader MS community. 

 
 

Geoff Allix  25:05 

So, right at the beginning, I saw that it was posted to say, would anyone be interested and I thought, well, actually I do audio and stuff for my work. And I have a studio mic for work. And I have all the software and everything like that. I’m used to using it. And it should be pretty straightforward. And then, I was contacted by the then CEO, Gary McMahon, and he said, “Oh, yes, we’re going to give you an interview for the position, there’s a few people being interviewed”. And then I got incredibly nervous because I thought, oh right, I’m actually being tested and my professional, I’d shown him samples of my work. And I was like, my works being judged here. And I got incredibly nervous, considering I’m not being paid for the role. So I was probably more nervous for this, if you like job, I’m not being paid for than I was for ones where I get paid for it. But then, I did it purely because I wanted to give back to OMS. I felt I had benefited hugely from OMS. And I wanted to, to return that in some way. But actually, I found it hugely beneficial. Just interviewing such a broad range of people from some of the top neurologists in the world, to dietary experts, to specialist MS exercise experts, really such a broad range and inspiring people as well who’ve inspired me, people who run marathons, who’ve got MS. You know, people who’ve really just embraced everything about the lifestyle. And it’s incredibly encouraging. So it’s been a fascinating journey for me, and I’ve definitely got a huge amount from it. And so I find it hugely beneficial. 

 
 

Alex Twersky  27:01 

Well, I would say just add to that, on behalf of Overcoming MS. We’re certainly really pleased and inspired by your embrace of the role and you’ve done an amazing job. So I’m sure our audience, and we as an organization really appreciate all the effort and energy you’ve contributed and continue to contribute. So a big thank you to you, as something that really means a lot to us. Because the podcast has really become a really important feature of our offering to the community. And we hope more and more people take advantage of it. So thanks, Geoff. Just a couple more quick questions, before we let you get back to your day. And I’m just curious how COVID-19, which is something that we’re all experiencing now and in different ways, in different parts of the world. But which is particularly important, if you have MS or any other condition that might lead to compromised immune response. I’m wondering how you’ve had to adapt your daily healthy habits to those new realities. And if you might offer any tips or tricks to our audience for keeping steadfast with healthy lifestyle habits promoted by OMS, while also dealing with the challenges of COVID? 

  

Geoff Allix  28:25 

Yeah, I mean, it has been quite difficult. A lot of people with MS, in the UK certainly, have been asked to shield, which was to really isolate themselves, over and above what everyone else was being asked to do. It was initially to completely stay at home, don’t leave your house, don’t be in contact with anyone. So they really didn’t know what the effects would be. And one of my podcast guests was an MS specialist neurologist called Gavin Giovannoni. And he’s tracked this a lot. And actually, I think we don’t have as much to worry about as initially thought, we might, there is certainly some optimism that it’s no worse for people with MS. But still it’s a good idea. We do have a compromised immune system. So it does make sense. So there were issues initially getting food. I mean, in this country, they were very good at setting up a food supply from supermarkets. In fact, the government, if you didn’t have the financial means of doing it, they were actually everyone who was shielding would be given a food parcel every week and you could list your dietary requirements. I didn’t go down that route. Fortunately, I’m still working so we could pay for supermarkets to deliver. I think if you did have the food parcel it is a little bit random, what you’ll get, I mean, you’re saying I don’t want any meat, I don’t want any dairy. But then that’s really all you could say. So you’d get a random selection of fruit and vegetable and try and have to work out what you can cook that week. But even having supermarket deliveries has been somewhat challenging, they’ve obviously had their challenges. And we’ve had a few random deliveries come when something couldn’t be provided. And they decided the next nearest thing was something else. And you think that’s not really working for that recipe. So quick adaption has been required. But we’ve got used to that. And that’s really settled down now. So that’s all standard, and we get our free delivery, that’s absolutely fine. I would say that the exercise has probably been the hardest thing. It depends what your exercise is. But certainly going to the gym was completely stopped for quite a long period of time. Running, a lot of people wouldn’t be able to do that. I know now in this country that’s come back, but other countries it’s not. So outdoor activities have been curtailed. And I would say that biggest tip really, to get round that has been that community side of things. So I think that really, if you can reach out to your OMS circles, it really is beneficial to join a circle. Some of them are just social groupings, some of them are more active. But if you’re a member of a circle, and then even suggest to the ambassador and say, you know, would would anyone be up for having a mindfulness group, would anyone be up for having an exercise group, where we just check in with what each other has been doing? Or if you find some good resource, you can post those. And that way, I’ve really adapted my my routine to manage with Coronavirus, and it has become a bit of a new normal. I think the other thing is, getting your head around it. And, and if you’re thinking this is going to be finished in September, then, actually we’re nearly in September already, I’m just looking at the date. But if you think October, November, it’s unlikely. And maybe even next year, maybe next summer, it will still be around. So we just don’t know if these vaccines will work. And I think just getting into a new routine, a new normal, has been beneficial. And I think there’s a lot of things that won’t change, really, however things change going forward. I think I’ll carry on with the exercise routine that I now have. And so actually, it’s become the new normal for us. I think whatever happens if there were a vaccine in three or four months time, I think a lot of things wouldn’t go back entirely to the way they were. 

 
 Alex Twersky  32:45 

Geoff, do you have any closing thoughts that might encourage or inspire our audience that you wanted to share? 

 
 Geoff Allix  32:54 

I think if you’re newly diagnosed, it’s not as bad as you might think. There are developments in all sorts of areas. So the lifestyle factors, they knew nothing about lifestyle 20 years ago, so my father was not encouraged to change his diet whatsoever. He had a diet high in processed food, high in red meat, high in dairy. He smoked and wasn’t discouraged from smoking. He was discouraged from exercising. So really almost everything wrong. OMS is not some sort of like pie in the sky, made up approach. It’s based on scientific evidence. And if you put it to a neurologist, they will typically say, well, let’s say my neurologist said, there’s no proof for any of this, there’s no way that in fact this will be proved because it’s very hard to do a double blind trial for someone who is or isn’t doing exercise. You know, the placebo, you know, whether you are or you are not doing exercise, it’s very hard to do a placebo on someone’s diet when they know they are or they are not eating meat. So it’s almost impossible to do that highest level scientific research. But he said ultimately, this is not going to do you any harm. And in fact, it’s likely to improve your MS outcome. And apart from that, it’s very likely to improve your risks of heart disease, stroke, diabetes, and an endless list of these so called western illnesses. So, I think adopting that lifestyle is very likely to improve your outcome,  the outcomes in terms of lifestyle, there’s certainly so much more known about it nowadays, and adopting a healthy lifestyle will definitely improve your outcome. And then the other side of it is the medical side. And there have been huge advances. In the five years since I’ve been diagnosed with MS there have been huge advances. And there continues to be constant research and improvements in their understanding of MS. Treatments for MS. And so these things are just going forward at pace. And so your prognosis now is nothing like the prognosis than it was 10 years ago, 20 years ago. And it’s continuing to improve, so I think look forward with optimism, rather than with dread. 

  

Alex Twersky  35:50 

Geoff, those are really important thoughts indeed. And I just wanted to thank you again for the time you took to open up your own life and experiences with our audience, and I thank you for the opportunity to take a moment to be in the guest chair or, I should say for me to be in the host chair and for you to be in the guest chair. I’m eager for you to return to the standard arrangement with our next episode and which I’m sure our audience will look forward to as well. And just to let everyone know, since we have your rapt attention, our next full length episode, after this one will be launching on September 9, and it will feature a very special guest, Trevor Wicken of the MS gym, and it will talk about how to juice up the exercise routine for people with MS. And Trevor is an amazing fitness expert focusing on MS. So I’m sure that that will be a really exciting and useful episode for folks to tune into. And Geoff, any closing words? 

 
 

Geoff Allix  37:03 

No, I think thanks for switching chairs and like you say, yeah, I’ll be back in the host chair next time. And I would absolutely encourage people to listen in on the Trevor Wicken episode. He’s a very inspiring guy. And we’ve actually recorded that aleady to be honest. It could have been three hours long, I think easily. He’s absolutely committed and inspired to the whole MS exercise and lifestyle approach. 

 
 Alex Twersky  37:37 

Excellent. Well, thank you again, Geoff. And I’ve kept the chair warm for you and I’ve kept the studio clean. So until next time, thank you.