S3E15 The MS Fitness Challenge with David Lyons

Geoff Allix  00:01

Welcome to Living Well with MS, the podcast from Overcoming MS for people with Multiple Sclerosis interested in making healthy lifestyle choices. I’m your host, Geoff Allix. Thank you for joining us for this new episode. I hope it makes you feel more informed and inspired about living a full life with MS. Don’t forget to check out our show notes for more information and useful links. You can find these on our website at overcomingms.org/podcast. If you enjoy the show, please spread the word about us on your social media channels because that has a kind of viral effect we can all smile about. Finally, don’t forget to subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast platform so you never miss an episode. Now without further ado, on with the show. In this episode of the Living Well with MS podcast, it’s my great pleasure to welcome David Lyons. In 2006 David was hospitalized and diagnosed with Multiple sclerosis at the age of 47. David is a former bodybuilder and health club owner. He exercised regularly and had a healthy lifestyle but with his initial MS attack he had partial paralysis, tightness, pain, and numbness in his extremities and back, as well as lesions in his brain causing cognitive problems with concentration. He also had a lesion by an optic nerve which caused vision impairment and blackness when seeing out of his left eye. in addition, David lives in a constant state of fatigue caused by MS. While he was in the hospital, doctors told him that MS would most likely leave him in a wheelchair and he would not return to his normal workout routine. So where did David go with this? Well, at the age of 50, David Lyons decided to compete in an MPC bodybuilding competition. David is the founder of the MS Bodybuilding Challenge and the co-founder of the MS Fitness Challenge with his wife Kendra. He has dedicated his life to helping people with MS understand and be educated on the importance of fitness in their lives. He has numerous awards, including the National MS Society Milestone Award, and he’s been presented with awards by none other than Lou Ferrigno, (who, younger listeners might not realize was once the Incredible Hulk), and Arnold Schwarzenegger, who I’m sure most people know. So David, welcome to the podcast.

 

David Lyons  02:14

 Oh, glad to be here.

 

Geoff Allix  02:16

And to start off with I would like to welcome you to the Living Well with MS podcast. Could you tell us a bit about yourself, your background and anything that the audience might want to know to get a sense of who you are?

 

David Lyons  02:31

Sure, I’ve been in the fitness industry for over 40 years. I was a Trainer, I am a Trainer educator.  I actually write courses for other trainers to be able to work with people, especially now with MS. I got diagnosed with MS out of the blue in 2006 at the age of 47. I was in great shape, you know, I was bodybuilding, I’ve been a bodybuilder, a martial artist and a boxer my whole life and all of a sudden I get diagnosed with MS. Basically, it was a punch in the face because I didn’t even understand what MS was. So I spent five days in the hospital and they did all sorts of tests. They kind of misdiagnosed me at first and then on the fifth day, they said, I’ve got MS and I said “What’s MS”? The Doctor explained it to me and then told me I’d be in a wheelchair within six months. I didn’t know much about the disease, but as someone who had, at that time, 25 years of fitness experience, I had a feeling that if I got back into the gym, I could beat this disease through bodybuilding. But I was wrong.

 

Geoff Allix  03:41

This is a podcast, obviously, no one can see you but I can see you on video.  He’s a pretty big guy. I’m sure you would say not, because you are from that background, but in normal parlance, you’re a big guy. You’re also the creator of the MS Fitness Challenge. What exactly is that?

 

David Lyons  04:02

Well, this is kind of a funny story… I was back in the gym and I said I’m gonna beat this disease through bodybuilding, and we started a kind of a movement called the MS Bodybuilding Challenge, which was me challenging myself to beat MS through bodybuilding. I competed in a bodybuilding competition and I realized that the bodybuilding itself made me look good and made me kind of feel good but it was doing nothing for my MS. My leg was dragging and I couldn’t close my left hand. It was just a mess. So the bodybuilding was not helping MS. My wife who’s a registered nurse for 20 years stopped me and she said, “You know, this bodybuilding, it’s not helping your MS, there’s got to be a better way to do this.” And I started to investigate what is the best way for me to beat this disease if it’s not bodybuilding. And during that process, my wife said, “You know, you’ve got to stop the bodybuilding part of this. You can do it for yourself, but are you really helping anyone with MS being a bodybuilder, or are you going to help people with MS if you teach them how to get better through fitness?” And that’s where my wife created the MS Fitness Challenge. We changed it from the Bodybuilding Challenge to the Fitness Challenge. During that time, I was digging deep into how the brain works, how the nervous system works, how our muscles work. I knew a lot as a bodybuilder, as a trainer, and an educator but I didn’t understand how it connected to MS. So, I took about a year’s time implementing training methods that I started to create on myself, I used myself as a guinea pig. During the MS Bodybuilding Challenge, we were reaching out all over the world, helping people with MS understand the importance of nutrition, mindset, and exercise. I was developing the Optimal Body Program, which is the program that I have now that’s a membership for people, but it’s a very, very unique type of training that took me over a year to develop. I was utilizing it all myself and all of a sudden my leg was bending, I was able to squeeze my hand, and I was overcoming the symptoms. And I said, “You know what, that works for me. This can work for other people with MS.” So, we went around the country doing 12 week challenges where we would help people through the charity in the MS Fitness Challenge for free. We would work one-on-one in gyms with a group of people with MS, getting them stronger and better and that’s how the whole MS Fitness Challenge started. It was kind of a combination of the Optimal Body Program that I hadn’t even explained to anybody yet and the charity.

 

Geoff Allix  07:13

So what would you say people with MS typically get wrong with their fitness programs?

 

David Lyons  07:21

A lot of things, and number one is they are really being misled in the MS community about what exercise for MS should be. And I say this, not to bash anybody that’s got fitness programs out there because they are all well intended. They are just people that do not have MS. They are giving out programs and putting people down a path of doing what they call functional exercise, which does not create the three most important things that are needed for us with MS to be able to overcome our limitations. The difference is my program and the way that I train people and the training methods I’ve created is that my training method creates production in the brain of acetylcholine, which is a chemical that actually moves muscles. There are studies in the National Board of Medicine for everything I am telling you and they’ve gone through this with athletes. Acetylcholine is produced when an athlete focuses during his training in a specific way, and trains a special way. His level of this chemical is very high, with MS the level is very low because we’re not creating what we need normally. My program helps people create that acetylcholine production. In turn the acetylcholine production creates muscle fiber activation, which means our muscles themselves are being activated through this process and causes an anabolic effect. Now anabolic means muscle stimulating.  Everybody thinks of steroids and bodybuilders when you say anabolic, but anabolic is a term that means that our muscles are growing, they’re getting stronger which is another thing that’s important for us with MS. My program does that. The next thing is our brain needs to be reconnected to our muscles because of the disconnect of the nerves. We have nerve damage. We are not repairing that damage. What we’re doing is, we are getting our brain to bypass that damage, reconnect back to the muscles that were lost and then getting the muscles to talk back to the brain. My program creates that. The last thing is neuroplasticity.  Neuroplasticity means that we are taking the nerves that are not working well and we are kind of deleting them, throwing them to the side. We’re finding the nerves in our body that do work well, and we’re trying to redirect them to where we want them to go so that our arms move better, our legs move better. But it’s a very, very difficult thing to happen. And all these exercise people out there for MS throw out neuroplasticity as if all you have to do is think about it, and it happens. It doesn’t, you have to create it, and doing leg lifts and these normal exercises that you could find on YouTube are not going to do that for you. It’s the specific way that you train that does these things that are important for us for MS. That’s what I’ve created that’s so different, and so unique. And the testimonials of the 1000s of people over 10 years that I’ve been doing this with that have followed these types of training methods with me, are proving that this works over and over and over again.

 

Geoff Allix  10:55

And if people have different forms of MS, someone with Primary Progressive MS or different levels of disability, or maybe they’re wheelchair bound, or bed bound, can they still use the similar techniques? Can they still take part in your programs?

 

David Lyons  11:11

They could use all the techniques. Now I don’t have relapsing remitting, I have PPMS. I never really had relapsing remitting, I went right into this terrible state. They said I would be in a wheelchair in six months. By doing the training methods that I did, I actually repaired all the symptoms that I have, I could jump rope, I could run on a treadmill, I could do all sorts of things. I squat 500 pounds, and I’m not a kid, I’m 62 years old. I’ve worked out like I’m 30 as if I don’t have MS. So anyone could use this. My program is designed for people that can stand and for people that can’t. So if you’re not mobile enough or balanced enough to be able to stand during the exercises, you can do them seated. The goal is to get you to be able to stand and be able to be mobile. Some of the people that have worked with me (and I have video of all this because I videotape a lot), have come to me where they had trouble walking up and down stairs on their own. Within months I have them running up and down stairs.  After following my training methods which activated all those processes I told you about in the body, they are running up and down stairs, and I have this all documented. You are not going to get that by doing normal squats, or by doing hip bridges or foot drop exercises. You know, all of those things are great, and I’m not downing exercise as a whole, it’s all good. But if you want to actually beat the limitations of MS, you need to follow a program that was designed by someone with MS that lives this every day. And that is using training methods that were created specifically to get you better, not just taking normal movements and telling people follow that and that’s going to get you better. That just does not work.

 

David Lyons  11:11

OMS is an evidence based program. It was founded by a doctor who had MS, a bit like yourself in a way, that he found a system that worked for himself and wanted to get it out to more people. And the books are full of research materials, it’s like 25% listing of research papers. So it’s very much a research-based approach. Has there been any scientific research on fitness or any of your methods and how your methods affect people with MS?

 

David Lyons  13:46

Unfortunately they’ve never really done fitness studies for MS. They said they are doing some little things here and there and I know that you know that the MS Society put out a few things that showed that exercise helped you, but most of that was cardiovascular exercise. It was not strength training. What I do know is that the way that I came up with my training methods was through actual scientific studies that are in medicine in the books about how the body works, and I applied it to MS. You cannot deny the acetylcholine production. You cannot deny that if you train the way that I train with the people that I work with, either one-on-one or through my membership program, that they are getting the type of training that will stimulate their muscle fiber activation, that can stimulate neuroplasticity. All of this stuff is not MS studies, but it’s studies on the body and those studies are there. So if you take those studies and just apply them to MS like I did, you have a proven system that works.

 

Geoff Allix  15:11

 If you could tell someone with MS three quick hacks that they could do that would allow them to see some sort of difference in the way that they feel with their symptoms, what sort of thing would that be?

 

David Lyons  15:28

I wish I could give you that. It’s not 123. It’s a plan. It’s a game plan. It’s training methods that you have to follow. Now, I will give you an eight week challenge that you can go on for free, that shows some of my training methods. It’s not all of them, but it gives you a sneak preview of how we’re doing what we’re doing and why those methods are so different than the other type of programs out there. It will show you why people are getting the tremendous results they are. I’ll give you a link that you can send to whomever you want and you can look at it yourself.

 

Geoff Allix  16:05

Yeah, we’ll put the link in the show notes. That’d be fantastic.

 

David Lyons  16:11

The things that are important are how you focus during the training that you do – what you’re thinking. A lot of people think that listening to music is motivating but it’s actually distracting for the brain. When you’re listening to music while you’re training you are only distracting yourself and taking away part of the focus that you need to create acetylcholine. That’s number one. Number two, you cannot just do normal exercises and expect to get anywhere. You’ve got to apply principles that were designed for MS. That’s important. Number three is what you’re putting in your body when you’re not exercising. That is just as important because if you’re consuming a lot of inflammatory foods you’re just counteracting the exercise that you’re doing. So, whether you’re in my program or not, don’t eat things that are going to give you inflammation, because that will take away from all the things that I was talking about in the processes that your body needs.

 

Geoff Allix  17:16

We are very much, as an organization all about diet, fitness, mindset, mindfulness and stress reduction, as well as, disease modifying therapies if you take them, but it’s the whole package. So the MS Fitness Challenge is a nonprofit organization. Why has it been set up as a nonprofit?

 

David Lyons  17:45

First of all, the MS Fitness Challenge is a charity. And what that charity is for is to educate on mindset, nutrition and exercise for people with MS. We’re in 25 countries and we have a lot of free programs on the website so someone who cannot afford a paid membership program could click and follow. The paid membership program that we have is way more comprehensive, and it’s a more detailed type of program than you’re going to get on a free charity, but the charity does provide a lot of free resources. We are out there helping people to understand how important fitness is so we’re not trying to make money from the charity. We started this for profit entity, which is the Optimal Body Training Program, where we can bring in money, and a lot of that money is actually donated back into the charity so it all kind of washes back and forth. The key here for us is that we want to provide for those who cannot afford to pay for anything, to give them the ability to get proper fitness information. I have experts in my charity and people like Lou Ferrigno’s daughter, Shawna Ferrigno, who does a lot of our mindset coaching. She had a number one selling book called The Reset Plan. She helps people get their mindset. We have people like Maureen Manley, who was a professional biker, even Olympic biker, who helps us with our wellness programs. We have Monica Capelli, who’s our Director of Nutrition and does our nutrition programs ournutrition and Matt Embry. We provide our members and people involved in our charity Matt’s Best Bet Diet because we believe highly in what Matt does in nutrition. There are a lot of things that we’re providing. We have other trainers who have MS and work with our charity to provide training programs. In fact, one of my trainers who’s in our Optimal Body Program, Kathy Chester, is now recording a whole training program that’s free for the charity for people that cannot afford the membership. So the charity is a very nonprofit organization that provides a lot of great free resources.

 

Geoff Allix  20:23

If this is the first someone has heard of your programs, what would you say is a good point to start? Is it worth doing the eight week trial program and see what they think? Or do you need to jump straight into the Optimal Body Personal Fitness?

 

David Lyons  20:44

So here’s my opinion, again, and take it for what it’s worth, it’s my opinion, of course, but the membership program is inexpensive. It’s the least expensive program for anyone with MS out there and it’s the most effective. You can cancel at any time so if you signed up for a month, and you spent $20 with our discount code, and you said, Okay, this is not for me, you just don’t renew it the next month. We’re not locking people in, we’re giving them the opportunity. The eight week challenge is really great, but it’s more for people that cannot afford that $20 a month  We have a yearly plan that’s even cheaper and you get resistance bands included. So we’ve made it very inexpensive, but there are people that are in such a limited budget that the eight week challenge is the only way they’re going to get the type of information that they need, so that’s when we recommend that. If you jump into the membership, you’re not going to be disappointed.

 

Geoff Allix  21:51

Okay. So where do you see the MS Fitness space going? What’s next for you? Is there anything on the horizon that would allow you to reach more people with MS? Where is the future going?

 

David Lyons  22:09

That’s a great question. Before COVID hit we were having live training camps where people were flying in from all over the country and some coming in from Canada and other places for a weekend with my team. We were working one-on-one, hand-to-hand with them on nutrition, mindset and exercise, we would take them through programs we typically do, and then COVID hit. So now we’re planning more virtual programs until it is safe for us to deliver our live programs again. I also have the goal of getting back to our gym 12 week challenges where we travel around the country, and go for 12 weeks and work with people inside of gyms. So there’s a lot that we want to do. With the charity we are planning on running virtual training camps moving forward. Again, we are launching a program that is just a click away on our website. We just launched a new nutrition program, a wellness program, and the exercise program that will be out in about a month.  That is accessible through the MSfitnesschallenge.org website.

 

Geoff Allix  23:33

Will there always be resources for people outside the states, for example if they’re in Europe or in Australia or Africa, will there be resources out there in person? Getting to see you in person would be fantastic for personal training. For those who are are further away, will you continue to have virtual programs and resources also?

 

David Lyons  24:01

 Yes, we will always continue the charity part, which will be virtual on the website and the Optimal Body membership is worldwide. We have members in Sweden and Switzerland and UK and Canada and Germany. We actually have 25 countries with our charity, and we are probably in 10 countries already, since we launched the Optimal Body program four months ago. I personally work with people one-on-one so I do have a program for those that want me specifically.  It is costly, but they get me one-on-one online where I come into their home via video. I’m actually working with 40 people in probably eight countries right now.

 

Geoff Allix  24:52

To finish up, is there fitness advice you would give to people newly diagnosed with MS? What is the best thing they could do?

 

David Lyons  25:10

Well, number one, don’t listen to any doctors or people that tell you that you’re going to be in a wheelchair or your life has gone down the tubes now that you’ve got MS. Don’t listen if you’ve been told to just relax.  Don’t listen, when they tell you that exercise and nutrition doesn’t help, because that’s not true. Be very cautious, don’t just take everything at face value when you find an exercise program that’s online for MS. Don’t just jump into it because it says ‘MS exercise.’ That does not mean that the person that’s running the program, even if they’re a trainer, understands MS and lives it, it does not mean that the program is actually getting the results that you want. Investigate, see who’s behind the program that you’re thinking about getting into. Make sure that the program that you are getting into can provide you with the processes that you need to actually overcome limitations, and that the person that founded it, and is running it, has MS himself or herself so that they can relate to the everyday struggles that we deal with. If someone does not have the disease and you ask them what it feels like to not feel your legs but be in pain, how are they going to know if they do not have MS? How are they going to understand how we battle this disease and how we overcome it through fitness? Just be cautious. Make sure that you’re finding a program that really will work for you. Whether you join the Optimal Body Program or you follow me through the MS Fitness Challenge, or you go in another direction, my mission is to help as many people as possible with MS get ahead of this disease through fitness. Whether it’s with me or with someone else, just do it.

 

Geoff Allix  27:11

And just to wrap up I’d like to say, particularly on this episode it is well worth checking out the show notes. So if you’re listening to this on a mobile device, and you don’t normally look at anything on there, do check out the show notes because there are links to the Optimal Body Personal Fitness Program and there are links to information about David Lyons and links to all the resources we talked about, fully available in the show notes for this podcast. And so I would just like to say thank you very much for that advice. Thanks for joining us, David Lyons.

 

David Lyons  27:43

It was so good being here. I’m honored. I’m humbled that you would interview me and I hope that I was able to help anybody, even one person, go down the right path.

 

Geoff Allix  27:57

Thank you. Just as a final note, if you haven’t already, please consider registering at www.overcomingms.org. This way you can stay up to date on all the latest OMS news including new programs and digital initiatives. Again, that’s www.overcomingms.org and look for the “Register” button in the upper right corner of your screen.

 

Geoff Allix  28:26

Thank you for listening to this episode of Living Well with MS. Please check out this episode’s show notes at overcomingms.org/podcast You’ll find all sorts of useful links and bonus information there. Do you have questions about this episode or ideas about future ones? Email us at [email protected]. We’d love to hear from you. You can also subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast platform so you never miss an episode. Living well with MS is kindly supported by a grant from the Happy Charitable Trust. If you’d like to support the Overcoming MS charity and help keep our podcast advertising free, please donate online at overcomingms.org/donate Thank you for your support. Living well with MS is produced by Overcoming MS, the world’s leading Multiple Sclerosis healthy lifestyle charity. We are here to help inform, support and empower everyone affected by MS. To find out more and subscribe to our E-newsletter. Please visit our website at overcomingms.org.

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