S4E23 Calming the Chaos – in Conversation with Mattie Cummins

(7:19) “We do a mindfulness practice around breathing or visualization to calm down the brain so that you can then begin to, to hear what’s happening in your brain so you can actually change the cognition.” 

(8:21) “There are all these layers of the reason why we live in chaos. And that can be lack of sleep. That can be grief from the MS. That can be just changes in our relationships because that happens too. And that’s going to affect the way that we feel.” 

(11:54) “Life changes anyway, I mean, but when you have autoimmune disorders, life changes drastically sometimes at the drop of a hat. You have the, like, I call it a toolbox. You have a toolbox that you go, Hey, life’s got more stressful. I’m going to pop open the top. I’m going to pull out the tools that work for me. And we’re just going to add in some different tools for this particular situation.” 

(17:24) “Thriving to me is living in the joy of life and being present. When we have the capacity to be present, understanding when we don’t have the capacity to be present, but that we actually walk through every day with a calmness that today is going to be whatever day it is. 

Geoff Allix: Welcome to Living Well with MS, the podcast from Overcoming MS the world’s leading multiple sclerosis, healthy lifestyle charity celebrating its 10th year of serving the Ms community. I’m your host, Geoff Allix. The goal of our organization and this podcast is to inform, support and empower people with MS to lead full and happy lives. 

[00:00:21] We’re excited. You could join us for this new episode. Make sure to check out this episode’s show notes for more information and useful links. You can find these on our website at overcomingms.org/podcast or on whichever podcast platform you use to tune into our program. If you enjoy the show, please spread the word about us on your social media channels or leave a review wherever you tune into our podcast. Have questions or ideas to share? Email us at [email protected] or you can reach out to me directly on Twitter @GeoffAllix. We’d love to hear from you. Finally, don’t forget to subscribe to Living Well with MS on your favorite podcast platform so you never miss an episode. And now let’s meet our guest for this episode. 

[00:01:09] Welcome to the latest episode of the Living Well with MS. Podcast, Calming the Chaos in conversation with Matti Cummins. Matti is a counselor, brain coach and CEO of Cerebrations with over 25 years of experience in social work, counseling and coaching for people with anxiety chronic pain, neurodiversity and other life transitions. 

[00:01:29] Mattie guides, people on a journey to harness the power of brain science and body awareness to master the art of thinking and begin thriving instead of just surviving. Welcome to the program. And thanks so much for joining us on Living Well with MS.  

[00:01:45] Matti Cummins: Hi, it’s great to be here. Thanks for having me  

[00:01:48] Geoff Allix: Just like the title of this episode implies you’re on a mission to tap brain science and human spirit to calm the chaos. 

[00:01:54] But before we explore what that means, perhaps you can tell us a little bit about your background, both personal and professional.  

[00:02:02] Matti Cummins: Sure. So I have a bachelor’s and a master’s degree in social work and, um, just love the concepts around, uh, whole people and whole persons, including their environment and how the environment affects us. 

[00:02:15] So I’m. I’ve always been a whole person professional. Um, and then through my journey of, of, um, social work, I started working through various nonprofits and through my own private practice with people with cognitive diagnoses such as brain injury, MS, spinal cord injury, um, and just became super fascinated by the brain. So I I’m really on a mission to help people understand how their brain works, because I think it’s not something we can see, and so it’s very easy to dismiss, but when we understand why our brains do things and the reasons that that things happen, like memory and concentration and, um, just some of that emotional stuff as well, it really helps take the shame out of why we feel the way we feel and can really help give some tangible, um, goals and, and programs to move forward and calm that inner chaos. 

[00:03:16] Geoff Allix: Through your organization, Cerebrations that’s C E R Cerebrations. Um, and your practice as a coach and therapist, you talk about something, you call the art of thinking. Um, so could you explain a little bit about what you mean by that?  

[00:03:32] Matti Cummins: Yeah. So again, I think it’s all related back to the brain. Um, we think, humans think in very black and white terms, so things are good or they’re bad. 

[00:03:42] Um, and I think it’s this balance of trying to figure out how we move through life in the gray areas so that we can see the positives as well as the areas for improvement. But that takes a lot of ability to, see, move in that gray area and that’s an art. So this is not about perfection, our brain, you know, one of the things I think people feel like is when they go to therapy or they go to coaching that the problems are gonna be solved and we’re done. 

[00:04:11] And really it’s, it’s a, it’s an art of Life Happens. And so we’re always gonna go back to old coping mechanisms because that’s what our brain knows and that’s the habits it’s developed. And so it’s really about looking at this as an art of healing, um, and our art of moving forward so that it gives us permission to not be perfect in this process. 

[00:04:35] Geoff Allix: And one of the core pillars of, um, the OMS approach is mindfulness. Um, and I think that’s the sort of mental side of things we, we sort of group up into, into just mindfulness and it’s, it’s a sort of a very commonly used practice nowadays. Um, but how does your approach to calm the mind differ from practices that people might be more familiar with such as, um, the use of mindfulness or meditation techniques to calm the mind.  

[00:05:08] Matti Cummins: I think that, um, my approach is, you know, I, what I think we see as mindfulness is this one area of wellness, um, you know, brain cognitions and changing the way that we think is another area. 

[00:05:24] And really the approach that I have is you have one brain and the brain reacts, um, individually for each person. And so it’s about finding what practices work. So let me give you an example of what that might mean. Um, mindfulness works because of the way your brain is working. And so it’s more for me around an education of when you are in the state of, um, anxiety, let’s just take anxiety. Um, it, your brain isn’t working at its full potential. The mindfulness calms down the fight or flight syndrome and then brings in the frontal lobe so that you can process. That’s the difference, I think, is explaining why it works. I think for some people, when they understand how the brain is working in that it becomes more meaningful and they can then go, oh, okay. I see this working instead of it just being this intangible thing.  

[00:06:24] Geoff Allix: So once you understand that it goes from, I think sometimes you get people that do that half an hour, mindfulness, and then go back to an incredibly stressful life. 

[00:06:34] Um, but. Building mindfulness, once you understand mindfulness or, or that the mental aspects of building into your lifestyle and being, being mindful the whole time.  

[00:06:44] Matti Cummins: Correct. And the mindfulness I think is really just about being present. Um, and so let me give an example of how I work through that with people. 

[00:06:53] So it’s, it’s about for, you know, doing a mindful, so when you start feeling, we go through the body and like, how, how is your body feeling? Because we all have, the body is always gonna be our first signal to the mental wellness. Um, isn’t where we need it to be. And so it’s, how does your body feel? Um, we do a mindfulness practice around breathing or visualization to calm down the brain so that you can then begin to, to hear what’s happening in your brain so you can actually change the cognition. 

[00:07:23] So it’s just, it’s more of a holistic approach. And the, the reason I mention all that is because that’s what we do. Um, I have my clients do throughout the day. So it’s this process of being intentional throughout the day, to do this approach, to be able to then, then decrease the stress on a regular basis, instead of in that moment.  

[00:07:45] Geoff Allix: Could you tell us about some of the practical benefits of, of the calming, Calming the Chaos approach, and, um, maybe could share an example of how this translated to a client that you worked with. 

[00:07:56] Um, although obviously, um, change their names, don’t use their actual names, but yeah, if you could tell us a bit about.  

[00:08:02] Matti Cummins: You know? Um, so I, so I had, um, I had a client recently with MS and I think part, you know, she came in because to see me because of the depression and anxiety that often come with, um, living with MS. 

[00:08:19] And, but as I began to, we began to talk part of, you know, I, I think of it as a layering. Like, there’s all these layers of the reason why we live in chaos. And that can be lack of sleep. That can be grief from the MS. That can be, um, you know, just changes in our relationships because that happens too. And that’s gonna affect the way that we feel. 

[00:08:39] It’s all of these pieces. And so, but what she, what I started finding out, um, As we’re talking is one of the things she’s super concerned about is her memory. And she doesn’t feel like she’s herself because her brain is changing, um, because of the MS. And she, her memory and her ability to process information has changed. 

[00:09:02] And so then she can no longer work. And so it wasn’t just, I have anxiety and depression. All of these things have happened. And that’s the layering that I was talking about that then causes the anxiety and depression. So what we do is again, um, you know, I’m pretty my therapy and my coaching. I’m very program focused because I think it just getting to feeling better faster is where people need to be. 

[00:09:28] And so we just walk through this program again, what is your body feeling? What are you? Um, I have a journal that, that I provide to people that they walk through to be able to identify all of these things we’ve talked about with the body and the brain and the thoughts and the situation that’s happening, so that then you can start breaking down. Oh, that’s grief. And when you can name it, then you can, you can change the way your brain thinks about it. Or you can just grieve it, I mean, I, I think our culture, especially in America, it’s like we push through it and it’s like, just pull up your bootstraps and move. And sometimes we need to just sit and, and, and grieve things and be sad so that we can then leave that. And move forward.  

[00:10:16] Geoff Allix: I dunno if this is applicable everywhere in, in the states, but, um, in the UK, certainly we have this phrase, um, toxic masculinity and it, and particularly for men, it’s not seen as appropriate to, um, sort of show emotion, right. To cry. Yeah. Those sort of things. .  

[00:10:34] Matti Cummins: Yeah. Yeah. We’re and I will say that, um, for men here too, in the United States, that is very much part of it. 

[00:10:42] Um, and, um, so, you know, I, the, the work I do with men is just also helping them realize this is just, this is the way the brain works. It’s not about your, I think we take. My brain’s not doing so I’m feeling something. Then it means that I, if something’s wrong with me. And so again, that brain education of this is how your brain has developed over time, I think is helpful. 

[00:11:05] Geoff Allix: So our audience is basically people who have, have MS or close to someone with it. So how applicable is your approach to people with a chronic autoimmune condition like MS.  

[00:11:14] Matti Cummins: Yes because, um, the, the, you know, chronic conditions, um, you know, it’s really part of the struggle is really the complexity of it. 

[00:11:26] It’s not a event like, um, someone with a trauma brain injury, although they have to live with a brain injury forever. There’s a period of time that changes. That’s not how this works. This is an ongoing disorder. And so part of the process that I walk through with people is developing a routine and a system of wellbeing of it so that you can then when life changes, because life does change with these. Life changes anyway, I mean, but when you have the autoimmune disorders, life changes drastically sometimes at a drop of a hat. You have the, like, I call it a toolbox. You have a toolbox that you go, Hey, life’s got more stressful. 

[00:12:05] I’m gonna pop open the top. I’m gonna pull out the tools that work for me. And we’re just gonna add in some different tools for this particular situation.  

[00:12:14] Geoff Allix: I’ve heard that toolbox analogy, um, with other approaches. And I think it’s, it’s really useful, um, for people with MS, um, to have that idea of toolbox and it, and not just for what you are talking about specifically, but it could be that, um, it, anything, it could be an, an exercise that you can do. Uh, it could be something you do when you’re feeling down. It could be, you know, any approach to how you deal with your condition. You have a set of tools and then you can access those. 

[00:12:43] And you know that in certain situations you can use certain methods or tools to, to help you, um, across the range of what’s going on in your life.  

[00:12:55] Matti Cummins: Yeah. And I think, again, part of it is, is that it, we forget about the tools because we’ve just gone on with like life, life can get. And I think all of us were this way of whether we have, um, you know, autoimmune issues or not because my life can be going just fine, but then something gets stressful and I have to pull out another tool. 

[00:13:15] And part of what I do is usually, um, you know, cuz a lot of my clients, I see regularly over two to three months, once a month, once a quarter after I’ve seen them initially. And it’s just that accountability and that reminder. What’s in your toolbox? Like you need to be exercising. What about this? What about that? 

[00:13:32] Geoff Allix: So we hear a lot of stuff about that rewiring the brain or, or, um, building new neural pathways. So these sort of approaches you’re talking about, um, and like the side of brain coaching. Can you actually sort of physically make changes to, to the brain using these sort of approaches?  

[00:13:51] Matti Cummins: Yeah. So the, the, just that general program I talked about around, um, you know, recognizing when you’re stressed out, recognizing how your body feels, listening to like what your brain is saying to yourself, um, reframing those thoughts, naming them. 

[00:14:05] It actually rewires the neuron. So, um, what happens is, as we grow up, we, we build brain habits. And those brain habits may be going directly into anxiety, worry. Anxiety’s not always a bad thing. And I think we label that as bad, but anxiety keeps us safe. So it’s, it’s not always a bad thing. But then what happens is that that becomes your norm and an example would be, um, you know, I, I just think about when we talk about people with MS, you know, going to the doctor can just bring up this level of anxiety, cuz you just don’t know what you’re gonna find out. 

[00:14:43] So that’s a brain habit. So what we do through Cerebations is we actually rebuild those habits in the brain. We, um, build bridges to different neurons so that, um, and I call it a bridge because again, it’s not about getting rid of the old habit. That’s how your brain was developed, but the toolbox gives us bridges to new neurons so that your new brain habits are positive and in the moment. So when I talk about walking through that journal and like, okay, what does your body feel? Um, what is your brain saying? That becomes automatic, so you don’t have to have the journal anymore. And it’s just. It’s such a cool thing to see when that happens, that you don’t have to write it down anymore because the brain gets it. 

[00:15:28] Geoff Allix: Um, I’d like to, um, encourage everyone to look at the show notes, cuz there’s lots of great links, um, to your website and some other resources that you offer. So. um, if someone’s starting out and they’re interested in this approach, how would they go about getting started? And what’s, you know, what’s the process and what, what services are, are out there. 

[00:15:47] What do you offer and to people who might be interested in this sort of approach? 

[00:15:51] Matti Cummins: I think a great starting point is, um, is, is just to go to the website and I there’s links to my YouTube videos on there as well. Um, There’s a calendar link. So if somebody’s just interested in talking to me more about this, I give free consultations and there’s a calendar link on my website to do that. 

[00:16:09] But the other cool thing is that I’m actually, um, I’ve developed one online course and I’ll be dropping another online course in a month that specifically around this program. And how do you, um, when it comes to having anxiety and depression and the mental wellbeing of the autoimmune, it’s an online program that will walk you through all of these steps. 

[00:16:33] If that’s something that you can do, um, on your own, and without the accountability of having a coach. 

[00:16:38] Geoff Allix: It’s probably worse pointing out that a lot of those resources are free as well. So. Um, obviously YouTube videos, um, and there’s also the calming class collective, which is a free group experience, um, available from the website as well as the art anxiety class, which is paid for, um, But one thing that resonated with me from looking at your website was you talk about thriving rather than surviving. 

[00:16:58] Um, the concept of thriving might mean different things to different people, but what does it mean to you? Um, and what do you hope it means to the clients you work with?  

[00:17:07] Matti Cummins: I think, um, surviving really just means going through the motions. Um, you know, we’re not we’re just existing, I think is a good word to say that we’re going through the motions, we’re doing what we need to do. 

[00:17:19] We’re feeding our kids. We’re doing all of these things. Um, thriving to me is living in the joy of life and being present. When we have the capacity to be present, understanding when we don’t have the capacity to be present, but that we actually walk through every day with a, with a calmness that today is gonna be whatever day it is. 

[00:17:47] And not sitting in this survival mode of constantly thinking about the future and worrying about all the things that we honestly, a lot of it, we have no control over,  

[00:17:56] Geoff Allix: With that I’d like to thank you so much for being our guest on the Living Well with MS podcast, Matti, we’re thrilled to learn about the amazing, what you’re doing. through Cerebrations to help calm the chaos in our minds. And I would encourage everyone to learn more about it and have a look at the links in the show notes. Um, check out your website. So, um, thank you very much again for joining us, Matti.  

[00:18:17] Matti Cummins: Thank you so much. It’s been a pleasure being here today. 

[00:18:27] Geoff Allix: Thank you for listening to this episode of Living Well with MS. Please check out this episode’s show notes at OvercomingMS.org/podcast. You’ll find all sorts of useful links and bonus information there. Do you have questions about this episode or ideas about future ones? Email us at [email protected]. We’d love to hear from you. You can also subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast platform. So you never miss an episode Living Well with MS is kindly supported by a grant from the Happy Charitable Trust. If you’d like to support the Overcoming MS charity and help keep our podcast advertising free you can donate online at OvercomingMS.org/donate. To learn more about Overcoming MS and its array of free content and programs, including webinars, recipes, exercise guides, OMS Circles, our global network of community support groups, and more. Please visit our website at OvercomingMS.Org. While you are there, don’t forget to register for our monthly e-newsletter so you can stay informed about the podcast and other news and updates from Overcoming MS. Thanks again for tuning in and see you next time. 

[00:46:20] The Living Well with MS family of podcasts is for private non-commercial use and exists to educate and inspire our community of listeners. We do not offer medical advice. For medical advice, please contact your doctor or other licensed healthcare professional. Our guests are carefully selected, but all opinions are expressed are solely their own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of the Overcoming MS charity, its affiliates or staff.