S4E14 Walking on Pins and Needles – Managing chronic pain with Tai Chi with Arlene Faulk

Geoff Allix (00:01): 

Welcome to Living Well with MS, the podcast from Overcoming MS, the world’s leading multiple sclerosis healthy lifestyle charity, celebrating its 10th year of serving the MS community. I’m your host, Geoff Allix. The goal of our organization and this podcast is to inform, support, and empower people with MS to lead full and happy lives. We’re excited you could join us for this new episode. Make sure to check out this episode’s show notes for more information and useful links. You can find these on our website at www.overcomingms.org/podcast, or on whichever podcast platform you use to tune into our program. If you enjoy the show, please spread the word about us on your social media channels or leave a review wherever you tune into our podcast. Have questions or ideas to share? Email us at [email protected]. Or you can reach out to me directly on Twitter @GeoffAllix. We’d love to hear from you. Finally, don’t forget to subscribe to Living Well With MS on your favorite podcast platform, so you never miss an episode.  

 

And now, let’s meet our guest for this episode. In today’s Living Well with MS podcast, we have an interview with Arlene Faulk. Arlene Faulk had a passion for writing from a young age, beginning in the eighth grade, when she wrote and published her class newsletter, The Tattler. She earned a BA in Journalism from the University of Iowa, reporting on everything from Led Zeppelin concerts to protests against the Vietnam war. She went on to receive an MA in Speech Communication from the University of Kansas. At 22 years old, Arlene lost all feeling below her waist. 

 

She regained mobility, but it was years before she received an accurate diagnosis of MS. Arlene endured years of undiagnosed chronic pain. Considering her debilitating symptoms, while climbing the corporate ladder, where she managed Human Resources Departments in a major airline, until her body stopped her. In her illuminating journey of determination and self-discovery, she explores how practicing Tai Chi and modifying her lifestyle and mindset, helped her retake control and move her life in the direction of possibility. She has been teaching Tai Chi for over 20 years in Chicago and Evanston, Illinois. Welcome to the program, Arlene. And thanks so much for joining us on Living Well with MS. 

 

Arlene Faulk (02:16): 

So glad to be with you today, thanks for asking me. 

 

Geoff Allix (02:19): 

And congratulations on the recent release of your book, Walking On Pins And Needles. It’s all about how you discovered how Thai Chi can help people, yourself included, manage chronic pain. And we’ll get more into that shortly. But, before we do, let’s talk a little bit about your background. So, you were diagnosed with MS in your early 20s, which then spawned a series of debilitating symptoms and pain as well. So, could you tell us a little bit about your initial experiences of coping with the realities of having MS? 

 

Arlene Faulk (02:54): 

Sure. Actually, it was in 1970. So, a while back, I had just graduated from college and was in my first job as a management trainee, so very excited, very busy. And in one afternoon, I lost all the feeling from my waist down, so that was pretty scary. And there was no diagnosis, it was inconclusive. Went away, I was young, I kept going. And then, it was some years later, that the symptoms returned, and it progressively got worse. I lost my ability to walk. I was having a lot of pain and still did not have a specific diagnosis. Just for your listeners, who might not have been around at that period of time, there was at least, in our country, the MRI was not a common test. So, there were CT scans, there were spinal taps. It was 21 years after that first episode of losing my feeling from the waist down that I got an official diagnosis of MS and that’s when I had the MRI. 

 

So, without going through the specifics, in terms of all that happened between the time it first occurred, and then when I got the diagnosis, it was basically, a series of fatigue, of losing my balance, not knowing if I could get across the street. Pain, I felt that my legs felt like they had needles just plugged into them. It was really like being plugged into an electric socket, is what it felt like sometimes. And then, my arms would feel like needles, just very sharp, prickly pain. So, it was scary, but I kept on going. I just thought, it was mind over matter, and it would figure out what it was. And as long as I could keep going, I would do that. And I was ascending the career ladder in a major corporation and was able to continue to do that, until one day my body stopped me and it stopped me completely, and said, “No more.” And I laid on my couch for two years. 

 

Geoff Allix (05:03): 

So, yeah. So, you went on to have a successful corporate career, but how did you deal with the stress of the high pressure? Or is that what ultimately stopped you, do you think? 

 

Arlene Faulk (05:16): 

It’s a very good question. I just kept barreling through it. I think I have a pretty high tolerance for stress and well, I thought so, higher than, we all have our limitations and we have to listen to our body, because if we don’t, our body will stop us. I thought I was listening to my body. I exercised, I walked, I went to a gym, so I thought I was doing it, but I really didn’t learn until later, that I was not really listening to my body until it stopped me. So, that’s what I did. I did social things; I went to the gym. In terms of doing exercise, I did do that. I thought that was relieving the stress, as well as social functions. As far as figuring out what was going on, I, at times, pushed that to the side and said, “Well, the doctors can’t figure out, what is really going on, and I don’t know. So, I’ll have to keep going, until they can figure it out.” 

 

There was a lot of frustration, a lot of frustration, because didn’t know what it was. And it became scarier and scarier, because the symptoms started getting worse and worse, in terms of, I was living in New York City and didn’t know if I could cross the street and all the traffic and busyness there. And so, I thought, “I have got to find out what this is.” And I had a good team of doctors. They thought it was neurological, thought it might be MS, but they didn’t have the tools to say specifically, that’s what it was. They treated me as though it was MS. At the time, the best treatment was oral prednisone. There were no injectable drugs at the time. So, it was really, oral prednisone, and I had lots of doses of that over the years. 

 

Geoff Allix (07:01): 

And that’s a steroid, isn’t it? 

 

Arlene Faulk (07:05): 

Yes. It is a steroid and- 

 

Geoff Allix (07:05): 

It’s a short-term treatment to get you through relapse of- 

 

Arlene Faulk (07:07): 

It’s short-term treatment- 

 

Geoff Allix (07:08): 

Yeah. 

 

Arlene Faulk (07:09): 

Yes. And then, the times when I was very close to losing my balance and losing my ability to walk, which I did three times, completely lost it, I would go into the hospital and they’d do an intravenous treatment. That also was a steroid, a stronger steroid, for three days. And then, hopefully it would stop the inflammation. And it did, I think in every case, it stopped it. But then, I felt all drugged and for many years, did feel foggy and drugged and it took a while then, for that to decrease and my symptoms to decrease. It didn’t make it better, it stopped the progression, is what it did. 

 

Geoff Allix (07:59): 

Mmm-hmm. Well, the core reason we’ve got you on, talking to us, is about Tai Chi. So, could you say a bit about when you discovered Tai Chi and tell… I mean, listeners might not be familiar with what Tai Chi is. So, could you describe it and your discovery of Tai Chi? 

 

Arlene Faulk (08:16): 

Sure. I will describe it. I mentioned that I was on my couch for two years, not knowing what to do. And all my leadership skills, decision making, that had served me so well, weren’t working. I couldn’t figure out what to do. Through a series of events, I was led to a healer, a practitioner of Chinese medicine and an acupuncturist. And I started seeing her. Did not know what I was doing, or what it was really about, but I thought, “Okay, I don’t know what to do. So, I’m going to try it.” And had success with her, she cared a lot. I really felt that she might be able to help me. And she was the one who recommended Tai Chi. So, when I started Tai Chi, I started with a group of seniors. I thought, “Well, why not?” What I knew about it was, it was from China and it was developed as a martial art. 

 

So, I started and for the first year and a half, I sat in a chair and I did the breathing. I did a lot of visualization, in terms of the moves, of what they were doing. And in each class, the teacher had the students do walking, a Tai Chi walk, where you focus on the standing leg. You pick up the leg and you set it down and we call it being rooted into the ground. So, the middle of the foot is rooted and you can focus then on your alignment. And then, you pick up the other leg and set it down. So, it’s an up and down motion. You go forward a little bit, but it’s more up and down. So, what Tai Chi does, just in general, overall principles, it looks to people like it’s a dance. When people see in the park, see people doing it, and it’s very beautiful, in terms of flowing and beautiful. 

 

What it is, is the focusing on the moment. There are weight shifts, three major weight shifts, and turning from the waist and the hips, the arms will follow keeping the body together as much as possible, as a single unit, working in harmony together. That helps you focus on the moment. When you focus on the moment, then it helps you relax. It helps stress go away because you can’t be thinking about other things. So, that’s one of the things that even helping me with my MS and my own story forward, that was one of the things that Tai Chi did. Because, the fear, the uncertainty, the pain can be hard to deal with. And sometimes, it’s easy just to focus on those things. So, I really wanted to get out of that mode and do something positive. For a while, I didn’t know if it was doing anything. I thought, “Okay, I’m going to keep doing it.” 

 

And I did. And slowly, I regained my ability to walk. I owe that and attribute that to Tai Chi, in terms of my walking. And in my classes today, I do walking, have the students do walking in every class, because I know how helpful it is, regardless of where your starting point is. And then, focus on the principles of being what we call again, rooted like a tree, nice alignment, and moving the body in preset sequence of movements, to balance is called balancing our yin and yang. And Tai Chi is based on the fundamental principles of nature, that everything relates to each other, and it’s in harmony and it’s in flow. And that’s what Tai Chi is and some of the names of the moves in Tai Chi are named after animals, or water, or mountains to really reinforce that point. 

 

Geoff Allix (11:53): 

And you can literally go from starting with a seated… If you’re not able to walk, you started in a seated pose, and then getting ultimately, to the point where now, you can walk. Amazing. 

 

Arlene Faulk (12:08): 

Yes, yes. That’s why, and I have taught people in chairs, classes where everybody’s in a chair and I’ve taught mixed classes. And what I say, is to visualize, because I had it happen myself, that you’re around this nice energy, it is a very good, flowing energy that’s relaxing. And then, if you visualize your foot taking a step, whether it is or not, or bending at the ankle, whether you can or not, then over time for me, I was able to do it. Now, I can only tell my story, but I have taught others that have made progress from where they are, in somewhat the same way that I have. 

 

Geoff Allix (12:49): 

And would you say that mindfulness is a core component as well? You mentioned that you’re in the moment, you are concentrating on what you’re doing. [crosstalk 00:12:58]. 

 

Arlene Faulk (12:58): 

Mindfulness is a huge component. In fact, Tai Chi is often called Mindfulness In Motion. So, you think about it and people are familiar with and do yoga, which is another excellent, internal energy discipline. It really creates stillness through stillness and poses. What Tai Chi does, it creates stillness through motion. Still, you’ll hear mindfulness in motion and sometimes, medication in motion. Because, it could be a medication, for people, in and of itself. So, it is a key component. 

 

Geoff Allix (13:33): 

It also came up, about our mindsets, compelling us to try and control things as much as we can. And there’s also an element that we need to let go, which might be a healthier path. Now, there’s two things that occurred to me when this question came up. Because, partly I think, some of the people who are doing better with MS, are ones who’ve decided to do something themselves, to not be someone that things are done to, so that they would just receive whatever the neurologist tells them. They’ll take that drug and it is what it is, and they will just carry on with their life. And then, they’ll just- 

 

Arlene Faulk (13:33): 

Right. 

 

Geoff Allix (14:18): 

Do what they’re told. I think, to me, the number of people I’ve spoken to, people who are proactive in their journey and they say, “No, I will actually do something.” Which may be taking up Tai Chi, it might be taking up yoga, it might be eating a more whole food based diet, doing more mindfulness. That actually, those people who are more proactive, tend to do better, from what I’ve found, just personal experience. So, there’s two sides to this. There’s controlling as much as we can, which I think it could be a positive, in that we’re actually proactive, but equally, maybe we take that too far and that we are trying to control our lives. I mean, you mentioned the start of your condition, that you were just trying to push through this. And I can understand that. Before I was diagnosed, traditionally, I did a lot of sport and I would just train harder. I do this rock [crosstalk 00:15:16] climb, I need to train harder to do that rock climb. I can’t run fast enough; I need to do a bit more running. 

 

And suddenly, it wasn’t working, because I was [crosstalk 00:15:25] tripping still and I was thinking, “Well, I need to run more then. To stop tripping when I run, I need to run more.” And that wasn’t working at all. And that was alien to me, that never happened in my life. So, clearly that way of doing things wasn’t working. So, how do you make that lane change to say, that actually, “We need to let go of that.” And can Tai Chi help with that shift in our way of thinking? 

 

Arlene Faulk (15:57): 

It’s an excellent question, because I think, a lot of us do what you’re talking about. I certainly did, in terms of trying harder. If it worked before, why isn’t it working, if I just do more of it? So, it’s a huge shift and it starts with a mental shift. A mental shift of, “I really can’t control everything.” It’s not that we don’t have any control, because we can do some things to help ourselves. But it is that things are going to happen and life happens and letting go is a major part of Tai Chi. Letting go of tension, letting go of preconceived ideas. And that has to do with first, learning, to be in the moment. So, I really did make a huge shift from living from my head, pushing through, to living in my body, in terms of letting go. 

 

And that is a main principle of Tai Chi. We have to keep working at it, because our mind will drift towards, this to do, or this worry. And so, fear can creep in and it is a matter of focusing on this breath, or this particular move. You have a move called, Part the Wild Horse’s Mane. And I tell my students in class, if Part the Wild Horse’s Mane is the best thing you’ve learned today, isn’t that wonderful? It’s wonderful. You don’t have any preconceived ideas of what that should be because you don’t know. And so, Tai Chi is really nice that way, to have terms that we don’t use in regular life, in a regular day-to-day life, I should say. And it is energy, learning to relax the muscles, relax the mind and move the energy through our body. 

 

And you can feel that individually, as well as feel that in a class. And doing some teaching, still doing some teaching online since COVID, and I can feel the energy coming through the screen, sometimes. I tell my students that, that when we’re doing it together, that really can happen. And I start before, even my [inaudible 00:18:14] starts in my book, I use a quote by an ancient Chinese philosopher, Lao Tzu, that says, “When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.” And that’s my journey. And I think, maybe many people’s journey. Whether they’re in that right now, is that there’s fear of the unknown. And what I’ve learned by letting go, is that’s where the possibilities are, in the unknown. When I jumped into work with Nancy, that’s her name, the acupuncturist, I was fearful. I didn’t know what it was, I had no experience and I did it anyway. 

 

So, sometimes we have to do that with good sense and good recommendation. I think that’s probably important also, but we’ve got to try. And I think that we fear the uncertainty and particularly, those are principles with MS and any chronic pain that people deal with. There can be a tendency to say, “Well, I just can’t do it.” Or “I don’t feel like it.” And taking one step forward, regardless of what it is, not just thinking about it, but actually taking a step forward, even in the midst of uncertainty and even in the midst of pain. I see others doing that, not only MS, but in arthritis, both osteoarthritis and rheumatoid arthritis, fibromyalgia, lupus comes to my mind, even I have a man right now, who’s dealing with spinal stenosis and he was not sure about Tai Chi and he’s been doing it about eight weeks. And he said, “He feels pressure off his spine doing the Tai Chi moves.” And he does some of it sitting down and some standing. 

 

Geoff Allix (19:57): 

So yeah, that’s very… And I think that idea that, you are being proactive in your wellness, but you are also being accepting. So, you can be both. You can be- 

 

Arlene Faulk (20:10): 

Yup, you can be both. 

 

Geoff Allix (20:11): 

Accepting, but you can also be proactive and do something about your wellness. 

 

Arlene Faulk (20:15): 

Right, I don’t think it’s an either/or- 

 

Geoff Allix (20:16): 

No. 

 

Arlene Faulk (20:16): 

It’s not either/or. 

 

Geoff Allix (20:17): 

No. No, no. They sound similar, but they’re not. No, it’s not. So, when did you move into teaching Tai Chi? And how have you developed that approach to tackling chronic pain? 

 

Arlene Faulk (20:34): 

When I started teaching Tai Chi, I had been studying it maybe five years. Usually, with people starting to teach, it’s a lot longer practice, before they start teaching. But, the acupuncturist was going to open a new, holistic health center and said, “I want you to teach here.” And I said, “I’m not sure that I’m ready. I’ll ask my teacher.” And he said, “No, I want your energy here.” And I did it and started. So, the teaching of the principles, you have to take it up another level when you’re teaching others, because you have to explain it, in terms that they might understand. And they don’t always understand, like I didn’t understand when I first started. Just said, “Okay, well, relax with it and give it time, and you will understand.” And you don’t always have to understand in your head. Your body might pick it up before your head does. 

 

And then, it’s been helpful. And to this day, I don’t have the chronic pain now, but if I do have some pain, Tai Chi is the most helpful thing to me. There’s something about the motion and the movement, that I can put myself in that moment and the movement itself, there’s something that really speaks to my body after all these years, that is still helpful. So, that’s basically it and other people are at different points. And I have seen some remarkable stories of people. I have a lot of people who do have chronic pain situations. 

 

And so, I give it to them for trying, and we can always adapt. I always say, “When we start, the main thing is showing up.” It’s like, what you were talking about before, in terms of, “It’s not an either/or, but being proactive.” I think, even with the pain and not knowing what to do, it can be difficult. Days can be hard. And so, taking a step forward to do something, saying that you deserve to do something, that it might make a difference, is really the first step. And it can be a really long time and space, between thinking you should do something and actually doing it. You might have mentioned that similarly before, but that taking one step, people feel so good about themselves. Say, “I did it,” showing up. So, I reinforce people for showing up. 

 

Geoff Allix (22:59): 

Yeah. I’ve heard that from other people, that just taking… You don’t have to run a marathon. If you can walk- 

 

Arlene Faulk (22:59): 

No. 

 

Geoff Allix (23:07): 

To the end of the street, or if you can walk to the end of your drive. If you take one more step, then you got a bit further than you did yesterday. And if the next day you get another step, that first step, that’s the start of the path. That’s- 

 

Arlene Faulk (23:21): 

Yes. 

 

Geoff Allix (23:21): 

Each time, you go a little bit further and at the end of that path, then you can do great things. But all of those things start with one step. 

 

Arlene Faulk (23:30): 

They start with one step. I have a woman who contacted me. She was interested in Tai Chi. She has a degenerative health condition and they haven’t diagnosed what it is, but she’s losing not only muscle tone, but muscle strength. And it is scary to her. She’s been very active and not only walking, but in sports. And so, it feels like her livelihood is slowly being taken away from her. So, she was asking about Tai Chi. She’s not able to do a class right now, but I told her about, on YouTube, I do have some videos. That, if she sat in a chair and maybe that would be helpful. And I talked to her, she actually contacted me. And she said, “I want to tell you how excited I am. I went from being able to do one of your videos from two minutes to five minutes.” She said, “I haven’t felt this good in a long time.” 

 

I mentioned that because that’s huge. To some people, that might not seem like a lot, but I give her all the credit in the world, because she’s doing something and it’s helping her and she’s excited about it. 

 

Geoff Allix (24:32): 

Yeah. And I think you need to reset as well. Because I sometimes- 

 

Arlene Faulk (24:36): 

And reset. 

 

Geoff Allix (24:37): 

I’m not going to do the things that I did 20 years ago. That’s not an achievable goal. Actually, if I can walk for two miles, then that would be an achievement, not running 26 miles. If I set- 

 

Arlene Faulk (24:37): 

Right. 

 

Geoff Allix (24:59): 

That as a target, that’s something I did before. That was a different time. So, me without MS and me with MS are different people. And I think, again, someone said this to me, “You can’t judge yourself on what you used to do. That was a different person.” So, you with MS, there’s achievements now that would’ve been nothing to you before, but they are still an achievement now. And getting a bit better now is a positive thing. So, don’t [crosstalk 00:25:22] judge yourself, what you could do for- 

 

Arlene Faulk (25:26): 

Exactly. And not to judge yourself. And you’re not a lesser person now than you were then because you can’t run your 26 miles. And some people might compare themselves and say, “Oh, I can’t do that. And I can’t do that.” And we don’t want to get into that mindset. It is, “Look at what you can do, where you are now.” Given your state of life and what’s been thrown your way. 

 

Geoff Allix (25:48): 

Yeah. 

 

Arlene Faulk (25:49): 

We all have things thrown our way that we don’t expect. 

 

Geoff Allix (25:51): 

And we mentioned earlier on, right at the beginning, that you’ve got a book. So, you’ve gone to write a book about Tai Chi and there is information about the book and where you purchase it and so on in the show notes. So, have a look in the show notes. But how did it come about, writing a book? 

 

Arlene Faulk (26:14): 

Excellent question. And the main thing I can say, is that my Tai Chi students were the ones who really encouraged me to write a book. I’m one who has kept some diaries, I’ve kept some notes. Certainly, when I was first seeing an acupuncturist, I’d come home and I’d write down what she said, because I really didn’t understand when she said, “Really listen to your body. You got to start letting go. You have to take your body with you” what all those things meant. So, students would say, “I’ve been thinking about taking a class. I’ve been thinking about doing this a long time. Your story was very inspiring to me. And it got me to the point that I actually did something. You should write it for others.” Excuse me? So my hope in writing the book is that it will inspire people to take one step to say, “Maybe, I can do something that’s really going to be good for my health.” Regardless of what their situation is. 

 

It doesn’t have to be MS. We all have things that we could do to help improve our life. But so many people think about it and don’t do anything about it and lose momentum. So, hope that my story is inspiring and the perseverance, and I did have a discipline in moving through what I moved through. And yet, anybody can take from where they are right now, and make a step to start to improve. It could be exercise; I think that is important. Diet, you mentioned those earlier, in terms of improvements in diet, different parts of our life that really could help make our health and our daily life more pleasant. 

 

Geoff Allix (27:58): 

Yeah. And I think as well, a lot of these things, people don’t necessarily get told about them by their healthcare professionals, because- 

 

Arlene Faulk (28:06): 

Right. 

 

Geoff Allix (28:06): 

They’re very much connected with what medication you should be taking. But I think- 

 

Arlene Faulk (28:06): 

Right. 

 

Geoff Allix (28:10): 

As well, it’s not rocket science. It’s if you eat a healthy diet, and people know what a healthy diet is. I mean, we talk about levels of saturated fat, and we talk about- 

 

Arlene Faulk (28:22): 

Right. 

 

Geoff Allix (28:22): 

Processing and most people know what’s healthy. Your parents told you 30 years ago. 

 

Arlene Faulk (28:28): 

Exactly. 

 

Geoff Allix (28:30): 

Yeah, “Eat your fruits and vegetables.” [crosstalk 00:28:32]. 

 

Arlene Faulk (28:33): 

Vegetables, right. Yeah. 

 

Geoff Allix (28:35): 

That massively processed candy bar is not health food. I think, everyone knows this, they know it themselves. They know that if they do a bit of exercise, that’s good for them. They know that if they’re not too stressed, that’s good for them. I think, yeah, it may not be our healthcare providers that are putting it front the center. But I think a lot of these things are fairly obvious as well. But I would like to ask you a question that we ask most people in some form, or other, and which is that if you were to distill your experience, specifically for you with Tai Chi, into a few core lessons that you’ve learned, that you give to our community of people with MS and the supporters of those people, what would these be? What would be the lesson, or lessons that you would say would be a core thing to take away? 

 

Arlene Faulk (29:26): 

Okay. The first thing that comes to my mind, is focus on what you can do, not what you can’t do. And you might make that a mantra for each day, or put it up on the refrigerator, or put it on your desk. Because it’s easy to forget, not just to forget, but not believe it, from day to day. So, that is what we can do, rather than what we can’t do. Think about somebody. It could be a family member, it could be a professional, it could be a friend, who can be a cheerleader and support for you. That if you take a step and it’s scary, that they’ll be there to say, “Keep going, keep going.” I think that support, for me, it was a woman named Nancy, my acupuncturist. I talked about her being a cheerleader for my body. 

 

I think, that’s really important. The third thing I would say, is to take a step forward, even if it’s very small and work on not being so hard on yourself. That it’s okay, it’s a small step and victories come in little packages and they can be monumental. And the last thing I would say, is breathe. When people ask me, “What’s the one thing I could do, that could really make a difference?” I say, breathing. And that sounds simple, but it’s not. I even see that in class, and people will say that “Oh, I’m glad you’re reminding us to breathe, because I’m concentrating. I’m not breathing.” I mean, intentional breathing, so that when we get stressed, even in pain, when there’s fear, when there’s anxiety, our shoulders tense up. 

 

The best thing we can do is breathe, intentionally breathing to be in the moment and take deep breaths in and out. So, I think that there are some apps out there that have… I looked at one, at one point, that had breathing. It was for, I think it had this big, looked like a sun, a ball that was yellow, looking like the sun. And it was to stop and breathe, breathe in for about one minute. So, that I would say is important also. 

 

Geoff Allix (31:40): 

I think, I’ve seen that, it might be Fitbit, or something like that. 

 

Arlene Faulk (31:44): 

I don’t know what it’s called. Yes- [crosstalk 00:31:44]. 

 

Geoff Allix (31:44): 

It’s bigger, isn’t it? 

 

Arlene Faulk (31:46): 

Yeah, the ball gets bigger, yeah. 

 

Geoff Allix (31:46): 

It’s smaller when you read that. 

 

Arlene Faulk (31:46): 

Yeah. 

 

Geoff Allix (31:48): 

Yeah, I’ve seen that [inaudible 00:31:49]. So, thank you very much for joining us on Living Well With MS, Arlene. So, we’re thrilled to learn about the amazing work you’re doing to help ease chronic pain through your Tai Chi practice. And I would encourage everyone to learn more about it by checking out your book, and you can find all of the links to connect to you and about your book in the show notes for this episode. So, thank you very much for joining us, Arlene. 

 

Arlene Faulk (32:14): 

Well, thank you, Geoff. I really enjoyed talking with you. 

 

Geoff Allix (32:23): 

Thank you. 

 

Thank you for listening to this episode of Living Well with MS. Please check out this episode’s show notes at www.overcomingms.org/podcast. You’ll find useful links and bonus information there. Do you have questions about this episode or ideas about future ones? Email us at [email protected]. We’d love to hear from you. You can also subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast platform, so you never miss an episode. Living Well with MS is kindly supported by a grant from The Happy Charitable Trust. If you’d like to support the Overcoming MS charity and help keep our podcast advertising-free, you can donate online at www.overcomingms.org/donate. To learn more about Overcoming MS and its array of free content and programs, including webinars, recipes, exercise guides, OMS Circles, our global network of community support groups, and more, please visit our website www.overcomingms.org. While you are there, don’t forget to register for our monthly e-Newsletter, so you can stay informed about the podcast and other news and updates from Overcoming MS. Thanks again for tuning in and see you next time. 

 

The Living Well with MS family of podcasts is for private, non-commercial use and exists to educate and inspire our community of listeners. We do not offer medical advice. For medical advice, please contact your doctor, or other licensed healthcare professional. Our guests are carefully selected, but all opinions they expressed are solely their own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of the Overcoming MS charity, its affiliates, or staff.