S3E9 Coffee Break with community member Rick Nelson

Geoff Allix  00:01

Welcome to Living Well with MS Coffee Break a part of the Overcoming MS podcast family, made for people with Multiple Sclerosis interested in making healthy lifestyle choices. Today you’ll meet someone living with MS for our global Overcoming MS community. Our guests will share their personal perspective on the positive and practical lifestyle changes they have made, which have helped them lead a fuller life. You can check out our show notes, and for more information and useful links, you can find these on our website at overcomingms.org/podcast. If you enjoy the show, please spread the word about us on your social media channels. Finally, don’t forget to subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast platform so you never miss an episode. So get your favorite drink ready and let’s meet our guest. Welcome to Living Well with MS Coffee Break number 16, where we are pleased to welcome Rick Nelson as our guest. If you haven’t already, please consider registering at www.overcomingms.org this way you can stay up to date on all the latest OMS news, including new programs and digital initiatives. Again, that’s www.overcomingms.org and look for the ‘Register’ button in the upper right corner of your screen. As always, your comments and suggestions are welcome by emailing podcast at overcomingms.org. We hope you enjoy this episode’s conversation with Rick beaming to you straight from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, although actually he tells me he’s actually in New Jersey, just over the state border and in the USA. So welcome, Rick.

Rick Nelson  01:38

Thank you, Geoff. Happy to be here.

Geoff Allix  01:40

So our audience wants to know a little bit about you and your life. So could you share some background on where you’re from what you do, any snippets of your family, your personal life or anything about you that would give our listeners a sense of who Rick Nelson is?

Rick Nelson  01:54

Oh, wow, big question. So I come from a blue collar entrepreneurial family, first in my family to graduate from college, came out of school, went to work for a big corporation, loved it, very challenging, very demanding, high stress, but loved it. And after about 12 years, I found myself running, you know a $60 million division of this company, my early 30s. But then decided I could do the same for myself and my team. So when a entrepreneurial opportunity came around and get my own business, I jumped at it. And since then I’ve led or helped lead three different entrepreneurial companies, one of which was a bust, a strikeout not successful. I learned a lot. One was I would say, moderately successful, my former partner is still running it, it’s making a good living for him and his family and one was a big home run. And that one, you know, we had a company that we grew from $100,000 business in year one up to $26 million in five years. And it was a great journey. Lots of lots of learning, lots of stress, loved it in many ways. But it took a toll. So this talks around stress.

Geoff Allix  03:22

Which is I think, a quite common as well as you when when sort of MS symptoms get going. So how about your experience with MS? Can you provide some context on that and when you were diagnosed and how you initially coped with that?

Rick Nelson  03:35

Yeah, so for me, I’ll actually start before that Geoff if it’s okay. My first experience with MS. I was in middle school, and I had an aunt, my aunt Mary Jean, my mom’s younger sister I was close to and she was diagnosed with MS. And this was back in the ’60s, probably late ’60s, early ’70s. And we saw you know, with you know, she did everything that the best medical science had to offer her. But you know, bit by bit by bit, you know, month by month, almost she declined and ended up passing away at early age. And literally, you know, from related effects to MS. And that was very hard on our family obviously on her kids and so that was something that you know, we felt and lived through and it was tough. And fast forward a couple of decades later I was diagnosed with MS and it was like oh my gosh, right this is serious stuff. So, you know, I started I was you know pretty active I was you know running a marathon, did frequent 10k’s and half marathons once in a while and my first symptoms were foot drop to where I was, you know, my feet would start to drag Then I was going around trying to get diagnosed and I was actually told I didn’t have MS by, you know, one of the big centers in the Philadelphia area Medical Center. And then one day, I lost my sense of taste and it’s like, yikes. So I went back and did a whole nother round and this journey was over a couple of years trying to figure out what was going wrong. And finally, I was diagnosed with MS back in the late 2004. So 16 years.

Geoff Allix  05:32

How about OMS? How did you come across OMS? And why did you decide to start following OMS?

Rick Nelson  05:39

Yeah so for me, you know, I immediately dove into research, you know, Dr. Google, and found initially the work of Roy Swank, and Roy Swank for those who you know, maybe not familiar with it did a literally a 35 year old study, starting back in I think, was 1948 Geoff where he followed MS patients over, you know, a good good number of MS patients, I think, and you know, a couple of 100 patients, MS patients, and track their diet. And what he found, he tracked a lot of things but what he found was those patients who stuck were able to stick to under 20 grams of saturated fat a day, animal fat, saturated fat, did literally didn’t progress over over that long period of time. And those that were over that did, you know, their level of disability progressed, and, you know, deaths and so forth. It was a long term study and that was super convincing to me. So I pretty much immediately went on the Swank diet, which was low saturated fat. And again,  going through the the experience with my family and my aunt, it was, it was pretty easy for me to stick to it. It wasn’t that tough, even though I love steak and meat and all those things. To me, it was pretty easy. And then a few years later, I came across OMS and I realised that the work of Dr. Jellinek; George Jellinek had really taken new research into effect, and was much more of a complete lifestyle. So I devoured the book, then I reread it and read it again and I became convinced, you know, the research and also the selfless nature. I mean, there were lots of people trying to sell stuff, including pharma companies and so forth but, you know, I just felt like, you know, this was genuine and the research was convincing to me, so, I adapted, you know, I adapted OMS. And I’ve been, you know, with it ever since. I did struggle with a bit and I still was in, you know, a high stress career and so forth. But I struggled with meditation.

Geoff Allix  08:01

That was actually going to be a question. Is there any parts you struggled with?

Rick Nelson  08:04

Yeah. Yeah, so I ended up going to the retreat in Melbourne. And, you know, I’m coming from the US, that’s a long plane ride, but I felt like you know, I’m gonna do whatever it takes, you know so I arranged I went to Melbourne, attended the five day retreat with you know, the intention of strengthening myself in, you know, in the meditation aspect and it worked. I mean, I there was the, you know, I looked the whole experience, Dr. Jellinek was very present and there was a meditation instructor by the name of Zig. They called him I remember his nickname and Zig made a statement that still rings with me, you know, all these years later said, if you have time to eat lunch, you have time to meditate. And you’ll be much healthier from the meditation than you will from lunch. And for for me, you know, I could stand to lose a pound or two. So for me that was resonates true and since then, I’ve had pretty much a daily meditation practice ever since.

Geoff Allix  09:07

I think one of my favorites, it may be Jon Kabat-Zinn, but someone said, If you can’t find half an hour a day to meditate, then you need to find an hour a day to meditate.

Rick Nelson  09:16

Absolutely, yeah. I love that one too. And I’ve become an inherent of his, Jon Kabat-Zinn. And he brought a program called MBSR, meditation based stress reduction. And I took a six week course at a local yoga studio after I got back, and I’m part of a couple of meditation groups locally, which is really just help reinforce the practice.

 

Geoff Allix  09:41

And when did you see positive effects from OMS on your MS?

Rick Nelson  09:51

I think pretty pretty quickly, you know, I mean, as I said, I was on a low saturated fat diet. So I’ve really, you know, I, it’s I feel I’ve been feeling healthy. I mean, you know, there have been some effects. But for the most part I’ve been, you know, able to live a healthy, you know, active lifestyle and contribute, you know.

Geoff Allix  10:14

So you’ve probably started to turn the tide with the swank diet already. And you’ve been a very valuable contributor to the OMS. community. So for example, you established the OMS circle in Philadelphia, and served as its Ambassador, what’s that experience been like?

 

Rick Nelson  10:42

So, you know, I’m really passionate about helping educate people so that they have a choice. Because in the US, you know, if you go to a neurologist, and you’re diagnosed with MS, in most cases, there’s not a conversation around lifestyle around diet, it’s mostly a conversation around pharmaceuticals. So for me, it’s been, you know, really important that people be aware and educated about, you know, the importance of lifestyle, you know, through the OMS program, because, you know, for me, it just works.

Geoff Allix  11:20

Yeah, it’s so frustrating. It’s just luck, isn’t it with which neurologists you get? And they’re right and it’s not just the country you’re from. I know that there’s several in the US who completely encourage lifestyle, as well as medication, you know, that they’re not I don’t think I’ve come across any neurologists who are anti medication. But yeah, there’s certainly a few who are very keen on the whole lifestyle message, but then there are others of the more old fashioned ones who are literally, these are the drugs you take, I’ll see you in six months.

 

Rick Nelson  12:03

And you know, I don’t blame them, because that’s the way they’re educated. You know, my nephew just graduated from medical schoo and he, and, you know, his, that’s the way he’s been educated from the beginning is looking at, you know, illness without framework, you know, so, you know, my experience has been the major, you know, institutions tend to be more drugs specific. And again, my viewpoints pretty limited here, and a more open attitude among, you know, some of the more independent ones. But, you know, for me, it’s like, you know, what goes to my mind is my aunt Mary Jean, and if she had been aware of, you know, of what we know, through OMS, then, you know, she would have been around to enjoy her grandchildren and contribute to, you know, to her family. So that’s my mind just keeps going back to that. It’s kind of a tragedy. I feel like people don’t know about it that are diagnosed.

 

Geoff Allix  13:00

And with Coronavirus, which, obviously, everyone’s going through this at the moment, how has that affected having an OMS Circle? How have you managed because, I mean, presumably, you were traditionally pre COVID, if you like, meeting up in person, have you managed to, to keep that going through lock downs and various constraints placed on you?

 

Rick Nelson  13:26

Yeah, so pre COVID, we were meeting pretty much monthly. And, you know, we would have dinner at a OMS friendly restaurant. We did, you know, meditate, you know, yoga sessions and meditation things. But with that, we were pretty active. But I have to say, it’s really dropped of for us, you know, since COVID, you know, Zoom just doesn’t seem to have the same attraction, I think, for people. And part of that I’ll take on myself too, because, you know, I would say, you know, my case, you know, we have definitely room for improvement around, you know, responding to COVID for this.

 

Geoff Allix  14:07

We have to hope though, I think we’re, we’re getting there aren’t we. Well, I mean, it depends where you are in the world, of course. I mean, there are, you know, anyone listening from India, it’s a very different picture from the states and the UK, but I think, yeah, for us, we seem to be turning a corner certainly with vaccinations and so.

 

Rick Nelson  14:26

So I was vaccinated. I got my second dose six weeks ago, so it feels like a superpower.

 

Geoff Allix  14:35

Yeah, mine’s tomorrow, actually, my second dose that’s tomorrow. And on a personal note, do you have any unusual interests or wacky hobbies you could tell us about? What kind of stuff would you do on a weekend for example?

 

Rick Nelson  14:52

You know, I don’t know. I don’t know if it’s in that wacky category or not. But I have embraced mindfulness so I’m part of several mindfulness groups. And I really, and I brought it into my work also, which I found helpful for both my work and just my health. So that’s one. I love to travel. We have a place in Brazil, my wife’s Brazilian, so we’re, you know, in the northeast part of Brazil, on the beach in Salvador, that’s been hampered by COVID. They’re experiencing a rough time right now with COVID there, too. But, yeah, I don’t know if it’s wacky or not, but you know, I embrace mindfulness, I do yoga. Also, as part of that, it’s a gentle form of yoga. That’s, you know, that’s helped me as well. I also read, I try to I try to, you know, I do try to read a book a month, at least, you know, just to keep my keep my brain, you know, growing and expanding.

 

Geoff Allix  15:51

I think yoga is great. I mean, I know, Veronique, who does a lot of stuff for OMS, with fitness, and so on. But it because it encompasses a bit of everything you’ve got, in fact, the more you look into yoga, the more OMS compliant it is because actually, they’re encouraged to have a vegan lifestyle, they’re doing exercise, it’s good flexibility, they’re encouraged to do mindfulness. And it’s like, okay, you seem to be ticking a lot of the boxes, essentially with one activity, but actually, it’s a, it’s an activity that has many strands to it. So you’re also a successful entrepreneur and management consultant, if you tap into that expertise for a nugget of wisdom that would help people ease into and better adopt the OMS program what would that advice be?

 

Rick Nelson  16:39

Yeah, it’s, you know, thinking of that, you know, Geoff for me, as you know, it’s about number one envisioning health, and that it’s about believing it and taking action for it, and really developing our habits for me. So, I have actually put together a scorecard, a personal scorecard, I keep it next to my shaving kit, and, you know, a little printout thing. And every day I check off the boxes, do I fulfill diet, you know,  am I following the diet OMS diet, have I done exercise? Have I done meditation, have I engaged in or meaningful personal connection outside of business, because I tend to be a little bit of a workaholic, and I get enough sleep. And I literally check off those and I have a little score next to each of them. And they add up to 100 points. And my I rate myself every day and every week and bring it forward. And again, I’m not trying to be perfectionistic. For me, if I have over 85% of my score there, then, you know, it’s been a successful day. But I can start to see trends, because I’ll develop personally where, you know, I’ll go sideways on sleep, or I’ll get over focused on work, and maybe neglect connections, or, you know, I’ll skip my exercise, you know, three times in a week or whatever it might be. But for me, having that little checklist just kind of brings me on back. And you know, there’s times when it’s, you know, 10 o’clock at night, I’m thinking you know, I want to get I want to check off the sleep box. So I’ll go to bed at 10:30 rather than, you know, one o’clock in the morning, which would be my natural habit. So for me, that little scorecard was was was a nice tool. And my you know, my business clients use that obviously, in a very different way.

 

Geoff Allix  18:30

But I guess people could personalize it, because I I mean, I think I think I might do this. That’s that sounds like a really good idea. But I think I’d add in if I’m drinking enough water, because I find it crazy. I’m sitting in a garden office, and I can sometimes be here for hours and then you think I haven’t gone in and drank any water all morning. And that would be whereas actually I’d sleeps not a big problem with me. I tend to get enough sleep. But you could you could change it. Couldn’t you say okay, absolutely. Is the things I need to do.

 

Rick Nelson  19:02

Yeah, like connection isn’t really in the OMS program. But I know it’s healthy for me. And it’s something that I need to focus on. If I remind myself of so yeah, it can absolutely be personalized.

 

Geoff Allix  19:13

Yeah. No, it doesn’t need to just be OMS it can be your lifestyle.

 

Rick Nelson  19:17

Yeah, yeah. So for me, the OMS part was diet, you know, exercise, meditation, you know, and I like sun, for me, it’s pretty easy. I’ll go and get signed up. It’s nice. So I don’t need to have that on there because I’m drawn to that anyway.

 

Geoff Allix  19:32

Okay, that’s excellent advice. So with that, thank you very much for joining us on the living world with MS. Coffee Break, Rick Nelson.

 

Rick Nelson  19:39

Great. Thank you.

 

Geoff Allix  19:41

 Thank you for listening to this episode of living well with MS. Coffee Break. Please check out this episode show notes at overcoming ms.org/podcast You’ll find all sorts of useful links and bonus information there. If you’d like to be featured in a future Coffee Break episode or have any suggestions, please do Email us at podcast@overcoming ms.org. You can also subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast platform so you never miss an episode. Living well with MS Coffee Break is kindly supported by a grant from the Happy Charitable Trust. If you’d like to support the Overcoming MS charity and help keep our podcasts advertising free, you can donate online at overcomingms.org/donate Thank you for your support. Living well with MS Coffee Break is produced by Overcoming MS. The world’s leading multiple sclerosis healthy lifestyle charity. We are here to help inform support and empower everyone affected by OMS. To find out more and subscribe to our e-newsletter, please visit visit our website at overcomingms.org

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