S3E6 Linda Bloom’s Overcoming MS journey

Geoff Allix  00:01

Welcome to Living Well with MS, the podcast from Overcoming MS for people with Multiple Sclerosis interested in making healthy lifestyle choices. I’m your host, Geoff Allix. Thank you for joining us for this new episode, I hope it makes you feel more informed and inspired about living a full life with MS. Don’t forget to check out our show notes for more information and useful links, you can find these on our website at overcomingms.org/podcast If you enjoy the show, please spread the word about us on your social media channels. That is the kind of viral effect we can all smile about. Finally, don’t forget to subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast platform so you never miss an episode. Now without further ado, on with the show. Joining me on today’s episode is Linda Bloom. Linda is a psychologist who specialises in counselling and hypnotherapy, but in addition, in June 2012, she founded the Overcoming MS Charity, and continues as the chairperson of OMS. So welcome, Linda Bloom. The first question I want to ask you, what’s it like to be the chair of such unique MS charity as Overcoming MS?

 

Linda Bloom  01:12

Yeah, I guess, when I first had the idea to share the information that, you know George (Jelinek) had put together all those years ago, I had absolutely no idea that nine years later, I’d be chair of a global MS charity that, you know, provides hope and evidence based information and the things that I really think changed the course of my life and you know, I’ve seen over the years has changed and transformed the course of many hundreds or 1000s of people’s lives, but to look back and see the impact that we’ve had on people all around the world is incredibly humbling and really fulfilling, I guess. So yeah, I’m feeling very blessed to be in this position.

Geoff Allix  02:07

And can you tell us about your personal experience with having MS and how your initial diagnosis went and so on?

Linda Bloom  02:15

Sure. Well, many of you will know my story but for those of you who don’t, when I was diagnosed I was 28 years old, I was living on my own, I’d just broken up from a seven year relationship, which is pretty textbook, actually Geoff as we know that you know, sort of six to eight weeks before the onset of MS there’s often like a traumatic life event that happens or some stressful trigger. So that’s what it was, for me. I was working as a psychologist in tertiary education in Melbourne in Australia and I was also working in private practice. So it’s like, you know, this strong, independent woman in the prime of my life and yeah, things were soon to change. The first symptoms I had actually were about a year earlier, so I had numbness and tingling sensations in my feet and it sort of spread up my legs, but that sort of came and went over a few days and the neurologist at that time diagnosed transverse myelitis and said, you know, come back if it happens again. So I was like, okay, all’s fine, didn’t really pay much attention to it. But then, about a year later, I had very similar symptoms, but a lot more dramatic and it spread very quickly throughout my body. So it wasn’t just my feet, my legs it sort of went all the way sort of up arms and up my torso and they put me on an IV and I think that really didn’t agree with me. I’ve sort of had some reactions to medications you know, in the past, I don’t know if it was an allergy, but within days, I was bedridden, I was in immense pain, I had that extreme heat sensitivity, which I know a lot of people experience, I remember sort of being in a room with cold, like all the doors open and the cold wind blowing through and I was draped in cold wet towels and still, I felt like my body was on fire. That hazy feeling of cog fog that you know many people have experienced is not being able to think clearly, I felt really nauseous, I had absolutely no physical, I guess or mental strength and I could barely move and I needed 24 hours care at that time. So I moved in with my sister and she looked after me. Yeah, so it was a pretty scary time. You know, kind of guess I thought my life was over, in a way, like everything that I worked so hard for in my career, and you know, my independence, and all of that was just gone.

 

Geoff Allix  05:36

And when did you discover Overcoming MS? Was it a sort of a Melbourne thing, being in the same city as George Jelinek?

 

Linda Bloom  05:44

Yeah, I think it was a bit of a Melbourne thing, actually, because I was lucky that my sister who’s a doctor, she came across an article that was in the Age Newspaper and I think it talked about both the book that had just recently been published; the OMS book, and also about the retreat which George had just started running, he’d only run one previous to that. So anyway, she went and ordered the OMS book, and she read it to me, because I couldn’t even hold the book at that time to read it myself, let alone focus on the words on the page. So she read it to me, and the first impact of that book was really, I think it was just having a sense of hope, you know, realising that it was at least possible to, you know, get better after a diagnosis of MS and actually yeah, there was a possibility of getting better and not only that, but they sort of outlined a clear path of things to follow, to increase my chances of getting there, or, you know, to reduce my risks of getting worse, so, that was pretty revolutionary. Definitely at the time, and certainly for me, because in perspective, it was, you know, the early days of the program as I mentioned, not long after George had actually done the research himself and started putting it into practice.

 

Geoff Allix  07:31

Did you feel it was important that there was something that you could do yourself? Rather than having everything done to you?

 

Linda Bloom  07:39

100%, I felt that I’m very much about, you know what can I do for mysel. I don’t like, relying on other people, at the best of times, and you know, discovering OMS really empowered me with that information of what I could do to take control. The book then was called Taking Control of MS, which has since changed. But yeah, it really did and to my thinking, there was no downside and the potential upside was absolutely massive. So I sort of thought, you know what, I’ve got nothing to lose and everything to gain. So let’s go for it.

Geoff Allix  08:24

What changes did you experience?

Linda Bloom  08:29

Um, so, there were lots of changes. Slowly at first, and, you know, some of the things were really hard for me to do in some aspects, like, you know, giving up cheese. I think I’ve heard you say that before. Cheese was a hard one for you and that was my soft spot and I grew up a carnivore eating, you know, meat three times a day. But yeah, you know, like, other things like reconnecting with a meditation practice that I’d had previously and then sort of let it lapse for a while. So that was really helpful and slowly, slowly but surely, I noticed that changes started to present themselves. It probably took a few months to notice some changes like it not being painful to take a breath. You know, I remember that moment of when I could breathe and it wasn’t painful. Also like when the numbness and tingling started to dissipate when I had, I don’t know if other people have had that feeling that you, your butt is glued together. So like, you know, little things like that started to ease over time. I remember like, being able to turn on the TV and not feel like I was going to throw up, like just being able to focus on a screen and yeah, slowly, slowly, things started to change.

 

Geoff Allix  10:12

And you mentioned there hypnosis, can you tell us a bit more about hypnosis?

 

Linda Bloom  10:19

Yeah so when I was diagnosed, I was enrolled in to do a hypnotherapy course, as part of my training as a psychologist. I didn’t think I’d be able to do it because I was so sick and I remember speaking with Rob McNealy, who is my teacher and exceptional guy who’s been working in the field for 40 years and I said, you know, I’m sorry, but I’ve just had this diagnosis and won’t be able to do your course and he said, it’s because of your diagnosis and not, despite it that I have to do it and for me, it was really eye opening, and really life changing actually, in a way, it deepened my meditation practice. So it was helping me to sort of be in that sort of meditative state. But what I would do was, once I was in that sort of relaxed and calm state of meditation, I’d sort of asked myself, I’d asked my body what it needs at that time and depending on what that was, like, if it was, you know, have I had a workday or something, maybe the words; calm and clear and focused, or something like that would come to my mind, and then I’d sort of just focus on those words and breath them in, and just visualise a time in my life that I’d felt those feelings and became absorbed in that and that practice, really for me deepened my meditation practice. And also, I understood from my training, as a psychologist, I understood enough about the science of neuroplasticity, which is the ability for the neural pathways in the brain, you know, to change and to reorganise. And I knew that sort of what I told my mind would have an effect on my feelings and my behaviors, and how those thoughts, feelings and behaviors are interconnected. So the messages that I had, in my mind, were really important from that perspective, as well. I was just gonna say that, I was remembering I had this mantra that I’d sort of repeat to myself over and over again, at that time, which was, every cell in my body is healing every minute of every day and I just kind of have that on as a loop in the background of my mind. And yeah, very powerful, very powerful stuff.

 

Geoff Allix  13:18

So where have you got to now them from being completely bed bound? And then, over the years, what sort of level of improvement have you got to?

 

Linda Bloom  13:31

Well, I can honestly say that I feel fitter and healthier than I did even pre MS diagnosis. So I’m definitely fitter. I’ve definitely taken exercise to another level than before I was diagnosed. I’ve got a much better work-life balance. I’m still working on that, but I haven’t had any relapses. since then. And yeah, I haven’t had any new lesions either and lesions that I had back then on my last MRI, we’re no longer there. So yeah I’m feeling great.

 

Geoff Allix  14:19

Excellent. And what did you find hardest about adopting OMS?

 

Linda Bloom  14:26

Yeah, as I mentioned, the food bit was on one hand really hard for me but on the other hand, it was a no brainer, because I knew the alternatives and I was so poorly, I was so sick that I sort of thought, you know, it’s a small price to pay, giving up cheese and meat, which were the things for me that were difficult. And building meditation into my practice regularly was hard over the years at various times, especially when you know, having a young family and having babies and little kids around, you know, there were certain periods of time where that it wasn’t a regular practice for me. But I must say that, you know, I do notice when I don’t have a regular meditation practice, and it does make a huge difference in my life in my way to be able to cope with adversity and stress and yeah, so I’m really mindful to build that into sort of my daily routine and to get up, you know 20 minutes earlier or whatever and do my morning meditation.

 

Geoff Allix  15:45

So, you’ve discovered the book and started following the OMS protocols, but how did you go from that to actually meeting George Jelinek and then founding the OMS Charity? Where did that sort of leap happen?

 

Linda Bloom  16:04

It’s obvious, no? Yeah, it’s pretty weird, actually. So I met George on the second ever OMS retreat that he ran in Melbourne and I must say that I was instantly inspired by him, you know, his courage to share his personal story, his drive to share his research findings with the MS community and you know, as those people who have met him will know that George is a man of incredible integrity, of courage, he’s really smart to boot and he really has a passion for making a difference to people and to people with MS. So, after the retreat, we kept in touch and he asked me to come back a couple of times as an inspirational speaker for retreats. Then one day, he gave me a call, and he asked if I’d be happy to share my story, in a chapter of the book that he was writing at the time, with Karen Law; “Recovering from MS,” this was back in 2013. On one hand, it was a massive honour to be asked by him, but I didn’t really feel comfortable with, you know, being public about my story at that time. So to put that in perspective, I’d moved to the UK in 2006, I’d met my husband; Tony, and moved over there. And I hadn’t told anyone when I moved that had MS because it was very much part of my sort of Australia life, but you know, I was feeling better and it wasn’t sort of, you know, part of my life anymore so I didn’t tell anyone. So then I thought, “well, if I’m going to write this chapter in a book, then oh, my God, what’s gonna happen?” But I agreed, and because I kind of just thought, “you know what, even if it makes a difference for one person, then it will be worth it.” And so I felt like that sort of moment was really my coming out with MS. But then, to go on to your next question it sort of made me wonder if people in the UK knew about OMS and lifestyle based interventions and George Jelinek. So I was at an event that the MS Society were running, and I just asked the question, you know, do you know about this stuff? And, you know, what sort of lifestyle interventions do you promote? And there was this like, long pregnant pause and “Oh, we’re not sure you know, we’ll have to find out, we’ll come back to you.” And that was kind of, you know, the epiphany moment for me after that, of realising that, you know, if people in the UK didn’t know about OMS, then I had to share that information with them and that couldn’t, in all good faith know all of this stuff, which had transformed my life and then not share it with others. It just felt negligent. So that was sort of the beginning of, I guess what’s felt like a bit of a calling to share George’s work with as many people as possible. Of course, I had no idea how to start a charity or how to go about it and I just thought, “you know what, one conversation at a time and see where it leads,” and there were a number of serendipitous sort of events that happened.

 

Geoff Allix  19:53

So could you tell us about some of these serendipitous stories?

 

Linda Bloom  19:57

Yeah, well, the first one was a bit weird. Because I had this idea I spoke to George, I sort of gave him a call and said, do you think this would be a good idea to, you know, spread your work in the UK? And also do you know anyone in the UK who I could speak with? And so this is the serendipitous part, he said, actually, my web editor at the time, who is Lisa, she was literally at that moment on a flight between Australia and London, where she was going to visit her mother, who also had MS and sadly has since passed. But Lisa was his web editor, and she was on her way to London, so I connected with her and then she connected me with another Lisa; Lisa Chandler and together we set about, I guess, beginning to influence the UK MS community and we had the idea of planning, the first UK retreat, and then a one-day event at the AMEX Stadium in Brighton. And I think those two events were pretty much the catalysts for OMS in the UK. I know that lots of people in our community first heard about OMS at you know, one of those two events.

 

Geoff Allix  21:23

And why the UK rather than Australia to found the charity. If you and George are both from Melbourne, but you decided to do it in the UK?

 

Linda Bloom  21:34

Yeah, I guess, you know, just because I was living there at that time. And, you know, I thought that’s where I could have the greatest impact. And also, I knew that George had already made headway in Australia and you know, it was a known program through the Gawler retreats that he’d been running there and he’d also run some workshops with the MS Society in Victoria. Also George’s research was based in Australia, you know, now it’s with the Neruoepidemiology Unit at the University of Melbourne. And the team there, you know, continue to revolutionise. But I sort of thought that it was time to explore the UK market and see if we could spread our wings a bit and I was there so I thought, why not?

 

Geoff Allix  22:31

You mentioned you’re completely new to setting up charities. So what are some of the challenges?

 

Linda Bloom  22:40

Yeah, well, I mean, I guess the other serendipitous sort of thing that happened, just to tie into that question, Geoff, was that when I was planning the first OMS retreat in the UK, I’d met Gary McMahon, when I went to New Zealand to learn about how to run retreats. And Gary was at the time working for the MS Society in Auckland, and was very generous in his offer to help. So when I was back in London, one day, I got an email from him saying that he and his wife; Karen, were moving back to London, for family reasons. And at that time, I was pregnant with our daughter, Ella and I was also metaphorically trying to give birth to OMS the charity, so I had a lot on my plate. So I ask Gary if he was going to be looking for work in the UK and he never lets me live this down, because he always teases me that, that I asked him if he was planning to retire. But for the record, I don’t think I ever said that. But anyway, I asked him if he’d be interested in joining me on a journey to see what we could do and how we could you know set up and establish a charity? Yeah, and that was a start of a very fruitful and close relationship between us. Yeah, which stand for about eight years.

 

Geoff Allix  24:11

So did you get any resistance from the existing MS organisations? Because there are quite a few, some of them are more traditional than others. And so did you find any negativity or resistance from them?

 

Linda Bloom  24:29

Yeah, there has definitely been quite a bit of resistance and just put in perspective, George has been dealing with that resistance for the last 20 years, since he put this together and back in those days, there was, you know, a lot of resistance.  But we know that it takes on average, you know, 17 years, from when research is published to when it starts to be taken up by clinicians and as I said, this is sort of 20 years since George first published his OMS book, so there has been a shift, an example of that is a really fantastic initiative by the Neurology Academy in the UK called Raising the Bar in MS, Health and Well Being. And we’re really excited to have a seat at the steering committee on that group, because they’re bringing together different players in the MS space and they’re harnessing the growing evidence base around lifestyle factors, and also the importance of risk reduction and the science of hope and positive psychology and it really shows that the tide is turning, but it reminds me that it’s a really far cry from one of the first meetings that Gary and I had with the MS Society, I probably shouldn’t say that, into names but were introduced to the then head of research and this was, you know, back in the early days, we proudly took some of Professor Jelineks, published research articles, you know, to discuss the benefits of lifestyle interventions with people with MS and how we could work together and promote them and you know, all of this. The person sitting on the other side of the table, took one look at the papers, threw them down on the table with a loud thud and he said, ‘this is not evidence, come back when you’ve got proof’, like really full on and it was it was really traumatic, actually and very much a reminder of how far we had to go and the obstacles that you know, we were going to have to face. So yes, there have been obstacles along the way.

 

Geoff Allix  26:52

I think just in my much shorter, sort of five year journey,  there’s been a change in that amount of time definitely in the way that neurologists, well they’ve heard of Overcoming MS and George Jelinek and I would say mostly it sounds like that they’re certainly willing to accept that lifestyle interventions are a positive thing.

 

Linda Bloom  27:23

Yeah, and there’s just much more conversation around lifestyle interventions now and, you know, like, acknowledging the importance of, you know, something like stress reduction or advocating Vitamin D. You know, that’s pretty mainstream now in MS, you know, even talking about ‘healthy’ diets. So, you know, I do think that the tide is turning.

 

Geoff Allix  27:49

And have you been inspired by people that you’ve met along the way along your OMS Journey?

 

Linda Bloom  27:56

Wow, what a question. You know, I have to say, honestly, that, you know, meeting people at our events and hearing people’s stories, and, reading blogs and online posts, and being inspired by people’s bravery to speak out and share their experiences, that’s what floats my boat, you know, that’s the stuff that really moves me and that’s the reason why I’ve been doing this and, you know, I wouldn’t even know where to start, but there’s so many people who I just think of with a huge, huge smile in my heart. You know, people I’ve met all over the world, really, you know, in Australia, in the UK, even when we were on the US tour, people who fundraise for us doing incredible feats of human endurance and, it’s like the family members, the people who have supported the people in our community who are just unbelievable, and go above and beyond to support their partners. Yeah, that really has, for me been the greatest gift to be able to meet these strong and brave and wise and funny and we see OMSers and their families over years that’s really, the creme de la creme of what it’s all about. And there are so many people that I think of when you asked me that question, but, obviously I don’t want to mention any one in particular, but I do have to say that, as a group, our facilitated group have been really incredible. Each of them obviously OMSers themselves having, lived and breathed the journey personally. But then they’ve also have immense experience and knowledge in their fields of expertise. So it’s been a real honor and a pleasure to work with them over these years and I’m very grateful to them, and to all of our community.

 

Geoff Allix  30:39

So you’ve mentioned Gary McMahon a few times, and he was the CEO of OMS and eventually, it sounds like many years after you suggested that he was due for retirement, he has actually decided to take on board that advice. So OMS has a new CEO; Grazina Berry, and could you describe how you managed the transition, because that’s quite a major, or the most major role in the organisation, so to move from the founding CEO to a new CEO, how was that transition?

 

Linda Bloom  30:41

Good question and, yeah, you’re right. I mean, I think change is always challenging in an organisation, but put that in the midst of a global pandemic and it certainly brings about challenges. And as you said, Gary was, he and I built it up from scratch over eight years. So it was a big step for someone coming in and on top of sort of all of those challenges, I’ve been in Melbourne, back in Melbourne for the last year since just before locked down. So the whole recruitment process for Grazina, and then the transition and then everything that’s happened since has been via zoom, we haven’t actually met face to face yet, which is totally bizarre, but maybe not these days. So you know, that’s obviously not ideal, but I must say that it has gone much smoother than it could have been. Grazina is a very different character to Gary, she brings different skills and different strengths to the organisation but she’s also someone who I’ve discovered cares very deeply, and has an immense, I guess it’s like an intrinsic desire to do good in the world and so I think it feels like we’re at the stage organisationally, where we’re growing up a bit from maybe teenagehood into adulthood. And for all of those who have had interactions with Grazina, you’ll know that she brings a wealth of experience and strategic thinking. And she’s got a very collaborative mindset and she’s got a real insight, I think, into the potential for OMS. She’s done a great job with bringing the team on board, which can have its own challenges, you know, especially when that’s all happening remotely. But she’s very collaborative, and she’s engaged with many of our stakeholders. So I feel she already is a great asset to OMS and I’m really excited to see how we evolve under her leadership,

 

Geoff Allix  33:45

And how have the OMS team manage that transition, and how are they managing the whole Coronavirus situation, it’s obviously not the same, not everyone in an office and and how have they managed that that change? With those two things; a new leader and new way of working?

 

Linda Bloom  34:08

Absolutely. Well, it’s a massive change for them and huge credit to the OMS team who look, you know, I must say they work absolutely tirelessly behind the scenes, to provide us all with the information and the support and the guidance of our community, so whether it’s putting out digital content or distributing the books and preparing for the launch of phase two of our website and developing webinars and connecting with our amazing ambassadors. And I have to just pause there to really acknowledge what our ambassadors do for us because they’re the lifeblood of our local community hubs and that really can’t be underestimated. The team reaching out to donors who can help us to continue the work that we’re doing. They just constantly giving their all and I’m so grateful to all of them for the part that they’re playing in spreading the OMS message to our community. They’re awesome. But I also Geoff, I just really want to acknowledge, if I may, our volunteers, you know, who dedicate so much of their time and energy to help us spread the word. And you’re a prime example, with the help of Alex, behind the scenes, our Podcast Producer, and you know, Alex has been helping us steer this ship since nearly the beginning. But, you are volunteering your time and your energy to helping us produce such an amazingly successful podcast series. And so I want to take the opportunity to really, thank you for your dedication, in bringing to light so many people’s stories.

 

Geoff Allix  36:13

Thank you, It’s a pleasure.

 

Linda Bloom  36:16

There are so many volunteers, you know, who do so many things for us and I really just want to thank and acknowledge each and every one of them for the part they play and for keeping it real.

 

Geoff Allix  36:30

And what’s your vision going forward? So I mean, I can’t imagine that you envisioned this level of success at the very beginning. Maybe you did, maybe you have, like, massive grand visions. But you know, I think it’s been amazingly successful. But where do you see it going forward for OMS? And where would you like to see it going in, say, five years?

 

Linda Bloom  36:55

Yeah, I had no idea what to envisage, back then. But it was just to help spread the message. So I couldn’t have imagined really, but we’ve just published our new three year strategy for OMS and I’d encourage people to have a look on the website for that and we’ve got a lot of exciting things on the horizon. So we’re going to be launching a new webinar series, and we have launched our third Living Well with MS podcast series; thank you very much to you, and Alex, which is going really well. We’ve been working on a new smartphone app to help people with the day to day implementation of the program, we’re going to be improving and expanding our OMS circles, and improving our support to ambassadors. An exciting thing I think, is that we’re going to be establishing a research advisory group to help strengthen the scientific evidence, which helps underpin the OMS program. And something else that I’m excited about is that we’re going to put together a patient advocacy group so that the OMS community are even more empowered to speak out about the benefits of MS self management with their health care practitioners. We’re also going to be focused more on making OMS more inclusive to all people with MS and their families and we’ve had lots of conversations internally, about this balance of being aspirational and bold, which is something that I think OMS has always been, but also realistic and respectful to people with all types of of MS. We’ve done lots of focus groups and there’s been a sense from some of our community that our language, talking about things like recovering from MS. For some people even Overcoming MS may not speak to certain groups; maybe people with primary or secondary progressive MS. Look, I think it’s a really tricky one and there’s been a lot of debate about it because you know, on one hand many of us many OMSers myself included, know that recovery of symptoms, of quality of life, health, well being, of even lesions is absolutely possible after a diagnosis of MS. It is possible because we’ve experienced it and for some of us our MRI’s have shown whether no evidence of disease activity or lesions no longer being present, things like that. But on the other hand, people with primary progressive, secondary progressive, even some with relapsing remitting may have had different experiences and we really want to respectfully acknowledge all of that. So it’s tricky and we know that finding a message that works for everyone isn’t easy. But we’re hoping that our new vision, which you’ll also see on the website is a world in which every person with MS is empowered to take control of their health, is making informed lifestyle choices, and is living the fullest life possible. We’re really hoping that that sort of covers all bases and bridges the divide, maybe a bit more. But personally, I’m looking forward to the day that the OMS lifestyle approach is part of mainstream MS treatment alongside medical therapies where needed, and I’m looking forward to the day when someone is diagnosed with MS and they go to their neurologist, and they’re given a brochure about OMS, as well as the brochures about, you know, the drug therapies, and they’re told that the best chance you have of staying well after a diagnosis is to do both of these things. And when that’s the case, all around the world, OMS the charity, I think will no longer be needed and that will be a huge result, in my opinion.

 

Geoff Allix  37:12

There are a few, I know a few neurologists who are on board with that. There’s certainly one in the US and one or two in the UK. So it’s slowly slowly getting there.

 

Linda Bloom  42:04

Slowly, but I think it’s also a bit like that tipping point, you know the tipping point where slowly, slowly, slowly and once there’s enough momentum…?

 

Geoff Allix  42:15

Yeah. And so if there’s someone listening who’s new to the OMS program, what are three tips or bits of advice that you would have for someone who’s starting out their journey?

 

Linda Bloom  42:33

Hmm, good question. Well, firstly, I’d say that the science is slowly catching up with acknowledging the importance of lifestyle interventions to people with MS just as it is with heart disease and diabetes and cancer. So don’t wait for the double randomised, double blinded, randomised controlled trials to prove it works when, you know, firstly, it’s common sense and it’s mainstream in many other health conditions. So the sooner you adopt the lifestyle recommendations, the better. Secondly, I’d say speak to people who have empowered themselves to make positive changes. There’s nothing more powerful, I think, than listening to and sharing personal stories. And finally, I would say, believe in yourself, that you have the inner resources that you need to live a full life after a diagnosis of MS.

 

Geoff Allix  43:45

Okay, excellent advice. And I would like to thank you very much, both for your work in founding the charity and with joining us today.

 

Linda Bloom  43:57

Thank you very much, Geoff, a pleasure.

 

Geoff Allix  44:04

Thank you for listening to this episode of Living Well with MS. Please check out this episode shownotes at overcomingms.org/podcast you’ll find all sorts of useful links and bonus information there. Do you have questions about this episode or ideas about future ones? Email us at [email protected] we’d love to hear from you. You can also subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast platform so you never miss an episode. Living Well with MS is kindly supported by a grant from The Happy Charitable Trust. If you’d like to support the Overcoming MS charity and help keep our podcast advertising free, you can donate online at overcomingms.org/donate Thank you for your support. Living Well with MS was produced by Overcoming MS, the world’s leading Multiple Sclerosis healthy lifestyle charity. We are here to help inform support and empower everyone affected by MS. To find out more and subscribe to our E-newsletter, please visit our website at overcomingms.org Thanks again for tuning in and see you next time.